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Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

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Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#31

Post by ajb »

dtech wrote: post #26
lostlogin wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So there is Apple, a massive company that makes software and has struggled with its car project, and VW, a massive company that makes cars and has struggle with software. In another universe, I wonder if this could have been a partnership?

Apparently working together with Apple is extremely difficult because they are so controlling and demanding, and that is even without the cultural and timezone difference, so I doubt it's viable.

Apple regularly does acquisitions (like, multiple per year), so I guess it's not impossible - but they seem to usually be much smaller companies which presumably assimilate. Their last big one[1] seems to have been the purchase of Intel's smartphone modem for $1B, still a lot smaller than VW's market cap of $58B.

A company which does multiple acquisitions per year will have a team specialising in the integration of acquired companies, and practice and institutional knowledge of the issues of doing so. But a merger would be different - a smaller company will slot in under some existing executive, with maybe the CEO promoted into the top team if it's a really hot company; a merger would require the merger of two executive teams, which would be a difficult event. So yeah, might not be viable.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitio...

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#32

Post by londons_explore »

ajb wrote: post #31
dtech wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently working together with Apple is extremely difficult because they are so controlling and demanding, and that is even without the cultural and timezone difference, so I doubt it's viable.

Apple regularly does acquisitions (like, multiple per year), so I guess it's not impossible - but they seem to usually be much smaller companies which presumably assimilate. Their last big one[1] seems to have been the purchase of Intel's smartphone modem for $1B, still a lot smaller than VW's market cap of $58B. A company which does multiple acquisitions per year will have a team specialising in the integration of a…

Might make sense to acquire part of VW. Ie. one or two brands, one or two factories, and a chunk of the design team.

Then sign an IP/licensing deal that both halves of the new company have access to most/all of the IP developed historically.

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#33

Post by constantcrying »

ajb wrote: post #31
dtech wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently working together with Apple is extremely difficult because they are so controlling and demanding, and that is even without the cultural and timezone difference, so I doubt it's viable.

Apple regularly does acquisitions (like, multiple per year), so I guess it's not impossible - but they seem to usually be much smaller companies which presumably assimilate. Their last big one[1] seems to have been the purchase of Intel's smartphone modem for $1B, still a lot smaller than VW's market cap of $58B. A company which does multiple acquisitions per year will have a team specialising in the integration of a…

>Their last big one[1] seems to have been the purchase of Intel's smartphone modem for $1B, still a lot smaller than VW's market cap of $58B.

That isn't how you can buy VW, the market cap is totally misleading. VW Group has a bizarre structure, it is actually directly controlled by some Porsche Holding company, which is directly owned by the Porsche–Piëch family.

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#34

Post by swores »

londons_explore wrote: post #32
ajb wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple regularly does acquisitions (like, multiple per year), so I guess it's not impossible - but they seem to usually be much smaller companies which presumably assimilate. Their last big one[1] seems to have been the purchase of Intel's smartphone modem for $1B, still a lot smaller than VW's market cap of $58B. A company which does multiple acquisitions per year will have a team specialising in the integration of a…

Might make sense to acquire part of VW. Ie. one or two brands, one or two factories, and a chunk of the design team. Then sign an IP/licensing deal that both halves of the new company have access to most/all of the IP developed historically.

Or even make it a full acquisition, but allow VW to remain a separate organisation with its own CEO and own board who answer to Apple's shareholders (and/or to the very top Apple execs) rather than to a separate group of shareholders?

I.E. securing any future VW profits, and ensuring that the IP licensing deal is indefinite, while staying hands off and allowing VW to keep doing what they do with the exception of using Apple software.

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#35

Post by constantcrying »

londons_explore wrote: post #32
ajb wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple regularly does acquisitions (like, multiple per year), so I guess it's not impossible - but they seem to usually be much smaller companies which presumably assimilate. Their last big one[1] seems to have been the purchase of Intel's smartphone modem for $1B, still a lot smaller than VW's market cap of $58B. A company which does multiple acquisitions per year will have a team specialising in the integration of a…

Might make sense to acquire part of VW. Ie. one or two brands, one or two factories, and a chunk of the design team. Then sign an IP/licensing deal that both halves of the new company have access to most/all of the IP developed historically.

The potential brands which can build a car on their own are VW, Audi and Porsche. It is pretty much unimaginable that they would be sold to Apple.

And what would apple even do with the teams? They now have 10k people in Germany ready to design a car for them, sounds totally nightmarish.

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#36

Post by epolanski »

ajb wrote: post #31
dtech wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently working together with Apple is extremely difficult because they are so controlling and demanding, and that is even without the cultural and timezone difference, so I doubt it's viable.

Apple regularly does acquisitions (like, multiple per year), so I guess it's not impossible - but they seem to usually be much smaller companies which presumably assimilate. Their last big one[1] seems to have been the purchase of Intel's smartphone modem for $1B, still a lot smaller than VW's market cap of $58B. A company which does multiple acquisitions per year will have a team specialising in the integration of a…

> still a lot smaller than VW's market cap of $58B

Just to point out, that doesn't mean that you can buy VW for $58B...

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#37

Post by Reason077 »

constantcrying wrote: post #5

I also pointed this out in the other thread, but VW is currently building up a direct competitor to Rivian. VW themselves says they want the investment for the Software of Rivian, which also is somewhat curious.

> "VW themselves says they want the investment for the Software of Rivian, which also is somewhat curious."

If you've ever driven a Volkswagen EV and compared their software experience to what the likes of Rivian, Tesla, and Polestar have, this will come as no surprise.

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#38

Post by londons_explore »

swores wrote: post #34
londons_explore wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might make sense to acquire part of VW. Ie. one or two brands, one or two factories, and a chunk of the design team. Then sign an IP/licensing deal that both halves of the new company have access to most/all of the IP developed historically.

Or even make it a full acquisition, but allow VW to remain a separate organisation with its own CEO and own board who answer to Apple's shareholders (and/or to the very top Apple execs) rather than to a separate group of shareholders? I.E. securing any future VW profits, and ensuring that the IP licensing deal is indefinite, while staying hands off and allowing VW to keep doing what they do with the exception of usin…

Unfortunately, with our current capitalistic system, it doesn't make sense to buy a company which has no intention to be as profitable as you are.

Basically, shareholders expect you to invest all the cash in your stockpile for a similar percentage return (on average), and they won't want you to invest in a capital heavy but almost profitless industry like carmaking unless you think you can turn it into a business of similar profit levels per unit investment to your existing business.

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#39

Post by constantcrying »

swores wrote: post #34
londons_explore wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might make sense to acquire part of VW. Ie. one or two brands, one or two factories, and a chunk of the design team. Then sign an IP/licensing deal that both halves of the new company have access to most/all of the IP developed historically.

Or even make it a full acquisition, but allow VW to remain a separate organisation with its own CEO and own board who answer to Apple's shareholders (and/or to the very top Apple execs) rather than to a separate group of shareholders? I.E. securing any future VW profits, and ensuring that the IP licensing deal is indefinite, while staying hands off and allowing VW to keep doing what they do with the exception of usin…

VW has comparable revenue to Apple, 4 times the employees, twice the assets and triple the equity. Additionally it can only be bought by negotiating with a single family.

No, apple can not buy VW. This idea is totally absurd.

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