Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure • Hacker News Board

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#21

Post by hatefulmoron » Wed, Jun 26, 2024, 8:31 AM UTC

throwawaysleep wrote: post #6

keiferski wrote: post #4

I am no expert on the public health system and so I'm more than willing to be educated/corrected here, but I have the following impression: There is more money to be made by stakeholders treating health problems than there is in preventing them. And so there is a lot more money and effort invested in developing pharmaceutical and treatment solutions than there is in preventing the problems they treat – even though th…

The barrier to exercise isn’t money in most cases. It is that exercise is misery. Exercise sucks. I am overweight. I much prefer Ozempic (and pay a substantial premium for it) vs lifestyle change. So do millions of other Americans who are shelling out for it. You would basically need to economically torture fat people to the point that exercise is less horrible than your incentives. I’m paying 8K a year to avoid exer…

The truth however is that to choose the pill is to choose uncertainty. There is no certainty that the drug you choose for your symptoms will work, less certainty that it will work for years into the future, and no certainty that it won't cause you further issues that will be remedied by a different pill, and on it goes.

Some things can't be fixed by exercise, so take the pills. Some things can, it's probably best to take the exercise. If it doesn't work, the pills are still waiting for you.

I guess what I'm saying is: exercise is misery, but not preventing damage is delayed misery of uncertain magnitude.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#22

Post by graemep » Wed, Jun 26, 2024, 8:33 AM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #4

I am no expert on the public health system and so I'm more than willing to be educated/corrected here, but I have the following impression: There is more money to be made by stakeholders treating health problems than there is in preventing them. And so there is a lot more money and effort invested in developing pharmaceutical and treatment solutions than there is in preventing the problems they treat – even though th…

Treating long term is a lot more profitable than curing too.

One of the worst things that ever happened to pharmaceutical industry profits was the the discovery that most ulcers can be cheaply cured with antibiotics (which won the discovers a well deserved Nobel prize).

Even after this ulcer drugs were hugely profitable. I cannot remember the numbers from when I was an analyst covering them (more than 20 years ago!), but at one point a very big proportion (maybe even most) of Astrazeneca's profits came from their blockbuster ulcer treatment. Imagine how much more profitable that would be without a cheap cure around!

Gyms are not the solution, nor are health food stores. Far more people join gyms than make use of them. You can keep fit going for walks or running or a multitude of cheap things. IMO the problems are lack of time for exercise and money for a healthy diet.

Poor people have a far worse diet than rich people because they have to fill up with cheap junk. Junk food takes less time to prepare. I have ready meals sometimes because I am tired. Some people have to do it all the time, and they do not have the money to be fussy about how healthy the meals are.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#23

Post by noufalibrahim » Wed, Jun 26, 2024, 8:33 AM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #4

I am no expert on the public health system and so I'm more than willing to be educated/corrected here, but I have the following impression: There is more money to be made by stakeholders treating health problems than there is in preventing them. And so there is a lot more money and effort invested in developing pharmaceutical and treatment solutions than there is in preventing the problems they treat – even though th…

Reminds me of something similar I read.

> Large companies will tell you that you need to eat different. Never to eat less.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#24

Post by grape_surgeon » Wed, Jun 26, 2024, 8:33 AM UTC

old_bayes wrote: post #9

peter_retief wrote: post #3

I think the positive effects for physical exercise in cognition and hypertension are fairly well known. There are other factors like alcohol consumption and stress have high correlation on the downside as well. I have a family history of alzheimer's and have hypertension so have a personal interest in looking after my mental health. What I can recommend from personal experience is: 1) Regular exercise with a routine…

Jesus, you manage stress by doing chores?

Why is this so ridiculous? Cleaning can be meditative. Just zone out

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#25

Post by noufalibrahim » Wed, Jun 26, 2024, 8:34 AM UTC

peter_retief wrote: post #17

old_bayes wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus, you manage stress by doing chores?

Give it a try you may be surprised. It is about attitude rather than the actual task.

Yes. When a task doesn't require concentrated mental effort, it can be quite relaxing. The hands take on a life of their own and the mind can relax. Pressing clothes, shining shoes etc. An old school hobby that I think served the same purpose was whittling. I do something like that from time to time and it has a very calming effect.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#26

Post by fifticon » Wed, Jun 26, 2024, 8:35 AM UTC

throwawaysleep wrote: post #6

keiferski wrote: post #4

I am no expert on the public health system and so I'm more than willing to be educated/corrected here, but I have the following impression: There is more money to be made by stakeholders treating health problems than there is in preventing them. And so there is a lot more money and effort invested in developing pharmaceutical and treatment solutions than there is in preventing the problems they treat – even though th…

The barrier to exercise isn’t money in most cases. It is that exercise is misery. Exercise sucks. I am overweight. I much prefer Ozempic (and pay a substantial premium for it) vs lifestyle change. So do millions of other Americans who are shelling out for it. You would basically need to economically torture fat people to the point that exercise is less horrible than your incentives. I’m paying 8K a year to avoid exer…

As countless others have replied, those of us that enjoy exercise feel like something is off here :-). I may be wrong, but my impression is that it is like driving a car with flat tires. Yes, that feels wrong, but once you inflate those tires, driving the car no longer feels wrong.

  At times when I have been out of shape, it has felt taxing to start up. But as soon as my shape starts to tighten up, it no longer feels like misery at all, instead it feels like the privilege getting to drive around in a cool machine - your very own body.
  It may be this is fundamentally different between types of people. For example, I have heard many women claim that running never felt good to them, even when they were in shape (this might there be related to how hips may be  differently shaped for running).

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#27

Post by District5524 » Wed, Jun 26, 2024, 8:37 AM UTC

old_bayes wrote: post #9

peter_retief wrote: post #3

I think the positive effects for physical exercise in cognition and hypertension are fairly well known. There are other factors like alcohol consumption and stress have high correlation on the downside as well. I have a family history of alzheimer's and have hypertension so have a personal interest in looking after my mental health. What I can recommend from personal experience is: 1) Regular exercise with a routine…

Jesus, you manage stress by doing chores?

"The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted." (Obviously, I'm neither Jesus nor the OP).

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#28

Post by globular-toast » Wed, Jun 26, 2024, 8:38 AM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #4

I am no expert on the public health system and so I'm more than willing to be educated/corrected here, but I have the following impression: There is more money to be made by stakeholders treating health problems than there is in preventing them. And so there is a lot more money and effort invested in developing pharmaceutical and treatment solutions than there is in preventing the problems they treat – even though th…

Gyms aren't the solution. Gyms also make most of their money treating the problem. They are massively oversubscribed because they know most of their members don't actually go. Most of their members are on the "forever diet". You know, the one where you're always trying to "lose weight" but never actually do (usually the opposite).

The actual problems are things like food addiction and forced sedentary lifestyles. The solutions to these are things like taking food addiction seriously and treating junk food the way we treated cigarettes (ban all advertising for a start) and getting rid of cars in towns.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#29

Post by isaacfrond » Wed, Jun 26, 2024, 8:40 AM UTC

Let's do it one more time.

Correlation != Causation

Could the causation conceivably run the other direction? People with beginning dementia exercise less? Yes, that is quite conceivable actually.

Could there be a common cause explaining both? Yes, if you are in good health, with good genes, a good job, leisure time and money, then probably you are the type of person who'll live longer, sport more, and be cognitively healthy for a longer time. It doesn't mean the causality runs in the other direction.

In other words, this study shows what we all know. The 'good' people have all the good stuff. But what we want to know, will an intervention that causes people to exercise more do any good?

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#30

Post by globular-toast » Wed, Jun 26, 2024, 8:40 AM UTC

throwawaysleep wrote: post #6

keiferski wrote: post #4

I am no expert on the public health system and so I'm more than willing to be educated/corrected here, but I have the following impression: There is more money to be made by stakeholders treating health problems than there is in preventing them. And so there is a lot more money and effort invested in developing pharmaceutical and treatment solutions than there is in preventing the problems they treat – even though th…

The barrier to exercise isn’t money in most cases. It is that exercise is misery. Exercise sucks. I am overweight. I much prefer Ozempic (and pay a substantial premium for it) vs lifestyle change. So do millions of other Americans who are shelling out for it. You would basically need to economically torture fat people to the point that exercise is less horrible than your incentives. I’m paying 8K a year to avoid exer…

That's good because exercise wouldn't solve your problem anyway. You'd just be a fat guy who exercises.

Exercise isn't a misery when you aren't fat.

To lose weight you eat less. Unfortunately we've decided treating food addiction with pills and removing organs is the way to go rather than targeting the addictive stuff itself. Kinda like treating heroin addiction by removing arms.