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Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

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Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#281

Post by seattle_spring »

itsoktocry wrote: post #142
rrr_oh_man wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can shop quotes around And use them openly against each other to get a better subsequent quote.

Exactly. And once they know you are interested, you have all the leverage, because there are so many great cars out there. You can negotiate ferociously . I once had the salesman turn his terminal around and say to me, "Have a look. By the time we pay the guys to detail and prep the car, we will make $700 off this sale. I have no more room."

Which was a negotiation tactic and a lie, since dealers make a lot of their money from volume bonuses and not just the price difference of a car. "Invoice price" is also often not the actual price dealerships pay for a vehicle.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#282

Post by Terr_ »

lolinder wrote: post #214

I'm reminded of the opening line of the second Mistborn novel: > I write these words in steel, for anything not set in metal cannot be trusted. The digital world feels increasingly dangerous and ephemeral. If I have something written with ink on paper I have certain guarantees: I know that it's accessible even if the power is completely out. I know that it won't randomly get deleted if my hard drive suddenly dies. I…

I think some of it's a matter of workflow design, rather than any particular technology. In particular, synchronous systems which can't work unless every part is ready to operate, versus asynchronous ones where delays are part of the design and the goal is eventual rather than immediate consistency.

The former are far more vulnerable to outages and interruptions.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#283

Post by akira2501 »

mywittyname wrote: post #72
ethbr1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, the vendor becomes insulated from customer demands. Why patch things or work your ass off, when none of your customers have an alternative? (especially if PE buys the business or CEOs get a stock price focus and gut engineering to keep-the-lights-on levels)

There's a quiet irony in car dealership networks being fucked like this. They spend so much money ensuring their government-mandated monopoly, only to fall victim to a different kind of monopoly.

> their government-mandated monopoly

Anyone can open a dealership, except manufacturers, and it looks to be a reasonable and non discriminatory process. Critically, the government does not mandate the minimum or maximum number of dealerships in an area, so competition is not harmed in any way. This really does not seem like a monopoly issue.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#284

Post by epcoa »

sjf wrote: post #273
parpfish wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thats why i always print my airlines tickets instead of trusting eTickets on my phone

Find me a printer that’s more reliable than a phone.

Still use the same Brother laser AIO purchased in 2007, a printer in 2006 and a Canon around the same time. They all work perfectly, only the rubber rollers on the double sided ADF had to be replaced.

I don’t have any phones still working of that vintage.

Not a perfect comparison but the argument is dumb because the item at issue is the printed product not the printer.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#285

Post by bombcar »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #197
gwbas1c wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As in, the car listed on the web site does not exist. It's merely a gimmick to get you in the door and convince you to buy something else. (And probably illegal, too.) Happened to me the first time I went to buy a car. I just walked out and went to a different dealer.

> the car listed on the web site does not exist Sure. And I get that some of the walking around is probably a ruse. But we're talking about their internal records.

The thing is the car does probably exist somewhere - but it may be in their system, but allocated to someone (on paper only, because if they allocate it in the system it disappears from the website, but they want you to come in), or in transit (they appear on the website the moment the factory assigns a VIN build to the dealer, etc.

And sometimes I swear it's just a glitch and they don't really care.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#286

Post by Terr_ »

sjf wrote: post #273
parpfish wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thats why i always print my airlines tickets instead of trusting eTickets on my phone

Find me a printer that’s more reliable than a phone.

If a printer is broken, you find that out much earlier, with time to address the fault before it becomes a crisis.

If someone is carrying their printer with them on their entire trip in order to print their boarding passes at the last possible second at the gate, that's... A different kind of problem.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#287

Post by gamblor956 »

mywittyname wrote: post #72
ethbr1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, the vendor becomes insulated from customer demands. Why patch things or work your ass off, when none of your customers have an alternative? (especially if PE buys the business or CEOs get a stock price focus and gut engineering to keep-the-lights-on levels)

There's a quiet irony in car dealership networks being fucked like this. They spend so much money ensuring their government-mandated monopoly, only to fall victim to a different kind of monopoly.

People will hate on car dealerships until the automakers remind everyone (again) why dealership protection laws were passed in nearly every state in the first place.

You basically see this with Tesla: refusal to comply with local lemon laws, the CEO personally banning customers from buying his cars, repairs that take months, service centers hundreds or thousands of miles away.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#288

Post by reaperman »

juliangoldsmith wrote: post #206
blorenz wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is R&R still that large? A few NADAs ago I approached them to see about getting a direct integration. Only one of my customers was R&R at that time. ReyRey acted very elitist and told me that they had no interest. Fast forward to this last NADA where I approached ReyRey again with only three customers. I asked them if we could integrated with three and they stated that they would even do a single customer. Quite the…

R&R is still one of the largest. The elitism was definitely something I saw when I wrote the RCI integration at Dealer Wizard around 2014. I've heard they've been trying to change the culture internally. I'm not sure how that's going, but it'd certainly be welcome. Does Fortellis even accept other DMSes? I've dealt with it a bit to integrate with eLeads (now CDK CRM), but there didn't seem to be much on there apart f…

From a hiring standpoint, the culture at R&R is “beyond absurd” / “jumped the shark”. They utilize an IQ test which has many extremely “cultural” questions — quite a few questions have nothing to do with IQ, just trivia you’d only know if you’re from a very specific background (white, old). Things along the lines of “What celebrity died in 1997 in a car crash involving paparazzi?” (Princess Diana) … “what sport did Jack Nicklaus play?”. I fit the profile they are looking for, and knew all the answers to these questions, but I still felt they were "beyond the pale".

This is for software programming. Their salary ranges are also unbelievably low and they avoid interviewing anyone with even moderately strong qualifications (which would be considered "mediocre" qualifications in any tech hub).

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#289

Post by spurgu »

parpfish wrote: post #255
lolinder wrote: post #214

I'm reminded of the opening line of the second Mistborn novel: > I write these words in steel, for anything not set in metal cannot be trusted. The digital world feels increasingly dangerous and ephemeral. If I have something written with ink on paper I have certain guarantees: I know that it's accessible even if the power is completely out. I know that it won't randomly get deleted if my hard drive suddenly dies. I…

thats why i always print my airlines tickets instead of trusting eTickets on my phone

I never trust e-tickets either but I save mine as photos. Quick and easy to access. Photo gallery works without an internet connection. Plus photos are synced to the cloud so this way if I have a phone emergency I would also be able access the ticket from my laptop.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#290

Post by nick__m »

itsoktocry wrote: post #43
kevingadd wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting, because in theory the requirement for independent dealerships could promote competition - they can compete to offer the lowest markup over MSRP, offer different addons, or offer better service. Just like going to a specialist shop for computer parts or audio gear or whatnot. But instead we ended up with a system where car dealerships basically own local lawmakers and got laws passed that not only pr…

> But instead we ended up with a system where car dealerships basically own local lawmakers and got laws passed that not only prevent the manufacturer from competing with them, but make it really hard for people to start new dealerships to compete with them. There are practical reasons for this. People buy expensive items and expect to be able to get those items maintained and serviced. If the business was cutthroat,…

   And the idea that they don't compete is an outright fabrication.
Not when almost all the dealerships in given region are own by the same family. Here the same group own the Genesis, Infiniti, Kia, Hyundai, Mazda, Mercedes, Mitsubishi, Nissan and Volvo dealerships in a 100km radius.

If I want a Mazda I can get a quote from Joe Cardealar or I can drive 50km and get a quote from his brother Steve Cardealar.

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