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How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

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Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#141

Post by fennecfoxen »

simoncion wrote: post #132
fennecfoxen wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In San Francisco, the Rent Board places additional obligations on the landlord and declares random things legal and enforceable or not legal and not enforceable. (For instance, a recent example: if there are multiple tenants in the apartment and their rooms are the same, they may not split the rent unequally. it must be split proportionally. so decreeth the rent board.) The SFAA lease contains things that are... batt…

You're right. The SF Rent Board does add some rules to try to ensure that a landlord can't evict a tenant simply because he's insufficiently profitable. But, from my POV, those are obligations that a landlord has to the local government. "if there are multiple tenants in the apartment and their rooms are the same, they may not split the rent unequally. it must be split proportionally. so decreeth the rent board." Do…

Citation: http://missionlocal.org/2012/06/tenants-raise-rents-on-new-r...

I suppose "political risk" would be a better term than "legal risk" per se. Subtle differences in the lease and established law increase the risk that the landlord has an unfavorable outcome (possibly including earning potential loss). As a consequence, they are unwilling to consider any changes to the lease, even a minor one, not simply because they may be screwed, but also because there are hundreds of other prospective tenants who would jump at the apartment who won't present them with any such risk.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#142

Post by fennecfoxen »

simoncion wrote: post #132
fennecfoxen wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In San Francisco, the Rent Board places additional obligations on the landlord and declares random things legal and enforceable or not legal and not enforceable. (For instance, a recent example: if there are multiple tenants in the apartment and their rooms are the same, they may not split the rent unequally. it must be split proportionally. so decreeth the rent board.) The SFAA lease contains things that are... batt…

You're right. The SF Rent Board does add some rules to try to ensure that a landlord can't evict a tenant simply because he's insufficiently profitable. But, from my POV, those are obligations that a landlord has to the local government. "if there are multiple tenants in the apartment and their rooms are the same, they may not split the rent unequally. it must be split proportionally. so decreeth the rent board." Do…

Citation: http://missionlocal.org/2012/06/tenants-raise-rents-on-new-r...

I suppose "political risk" would be a better term than "legal risk" per se. Subtle differences in the lease and established law increase the risk that the landlord has an unfavorable outcome (possibly including earning potential loss). As a consequence, they are unwilling to consider any changes to the lease, even a minor one, not simply because they may be screwed, but also because there are hundreds of other prospective tenants who would jump at the apartment who won't present them with any such risk.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#143

Post by fennecfoxen »

simoncion wrote: post #132
fennecfoxen wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In San Francisco, the Rent Board places additional obligations on the landlord and declares random things legal and enforceable or not legal and not enforceable. (For instance, a recent example: if there are multiple tenants in the apartment and their rooms are the same, they may not split the rent unequally. it must be split proportionally. so decreeth the rent board.) The SFAA lease contains things that are... batt…

You're right. The SF Rent Board does add some rules to try to ensure that a landlord can't evict a tenant simply because he's insufficiently profitable. But, from my POV, those are obligations that a landlord has to the local government. "if there are multiple tenants in the apartment and their rooms are the same, they may not split the rent unequally. it must be split proportionally. so decreeth the rent board." Do…

Citation: http://missionlocal.org/2012/06/tenants-raise-rents-on-new-r...

I suppose "political risk" would be a better term than "legal risk" per se. Subtle differences in the lease and established law increase the risk that the landlord has an unfavorable outcome (possibly including earning potential loss). As a consequence, they are unwilling to consider any changes to the lease, even a minor one, not simply because they may be screwed, but also because there are hundreds of other prospective tenants who would jump at the apartment who won't present them with any such risk.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#144

Post by rprasad »

rprasad wrote: post #92
drpgq wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do wonder just how much Airbnb income isn't declared for tax purposes.

Hopefully none, since Airbnb reports the income it pays out on Form 1099.

Of all the comments I made today, this was the one I least expected to be downvoted...

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#145

Post by FireBeyond »

dagw wrote: post #117
parfe wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attached to the order was a complete printout of my Airbnb listing and all my reviews, included as evidence I had violated clauses in my lease. (Some leases, I have since learned, have evolved specific language prohibiting tenants from listing their pads on vacation-rental sites such as Airbnb.) I don't buy your innocence here. I've been leasing houses for ~10 years now during and after college. The leases have alway…

I don't buy your innocence here. I don't find it that hard to believe that someone would blindly sign a lease after only quickly skimming over the important bits and then never look at it again. I remember one landlord looking quite surprised when I sat in his office and read all 8 pages of the contract, asked for clarifications on a couple of points and asked for one clause to be changed. It seemed to me that she'd…

When said person is occasionally and randomly having friends or guests over, sure.

When said person is making a fulltime income solely from renting space in an apartment that he is only leasing, well, "most people" would think "I should probably take a look at my lease first"...

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#146

Post by chives »

ed209 wrote: post #12
hack_edu wrote: post #7

Again and again, people who use Airbnb to 'hack' the rental market get little sympathy from me when the chickens come to roost. If your landlord was interested in running a tenement home/boarding house/hotel, they wouldn't sign you into a year-long lease. Also, and I know this has been hashed out before on these comment threads but he's grossing $30k a year on the back of his landlord. The landlord has every right to…

"If your landlord was interested in running a tenement home/boarding house/hotel" - then he would have to staff it himself too, promote it and take the risk of no bookings. With a tenant he has someone making sure the place is looked after + he has a contracted income for the whole 12 months. By the sound of this place, the landlord could probably do quite well out of airbnb. But in that case, why not just approach t…

I'm glad someone made the connection; if his landlord is going to Airbnb anyway, why not cut a deal?

If I was his landlord, I would have more than enough leverage with the breech of contract to get him to sign a new similar contract, this one charging maybe 2 times more rent. The landlord gets paid more, which in turn covers his slightly higher (or possible the same) landlords insurance and then some. The landlord lets his tenant do what he's good at (maintain a sterling Airbnb profile and choose good renters) and the landlord takes a larger cut. Worst case scenario, his tenant doesn't take the deal and the landlord proceeds to kick the tenant out for breech of contract (could possibly lead to a court battle, but breech of contract is a pretty cut and dry phenomenon and the contract most likely has breech of contract clauses built into it) and do was he was going to do anyway (rent it out through Airbnb or otherwise).

As it stands the landlord will be throwing money at lawyers (possibly covered by landlords insurance, but could effect the premiums later), which may not turn out favorably for the landlord in court, to ultimately do something that is outside his area of expertise (act as an Airbnb hotel himself).

That's what I think at least.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#147

Post by JoeAltmaier »

AJ007 wrote: post #61
benastan wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely an interesting story. The author was offering a personal experience that was enjoyable for both the guest and the host. As he said, his guests and he often established a unique connection. On the other hand: "When I delivered my rent at the beginning of the next month, I found the management company’s office under construction. It's now a hotel. The “loft-style” rooms are now listed on Airbnb for $169…

There are lots of hotels listing on airbnb. And yes, some look like they were intended to be apartments. NYC hotel laws are strict. Its very possible what the landlord is doing is illegal. If the OP was staying in his room, may be it qualified as a bed & breakfast. I don't think the landlord would meet that qualification.

In an efficient market, every niche will be filled. Resistance is futile. If there is money to be made, landlords will flock to it. The laws will change or be ignored.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#150

Post by rayiner »

peterjancelis wrote: post #139
rayiner wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it's hard to tell when value arises from the elimination of a deadweight loss and when it arises from externalization of costs. E.g. environmental regulation generates some deadweight loss in the form of compliance, etc. It also seeks to internalize inherent costs of activity that would otherwise be externalized. If we got rid of the regulation, a factory owner would see a small amount of benefit…

Negative externalities are best handled by tort law. Let case law develop over time. Central planning (i.e. one law with 'good intentions') does not work.

Tort law works okay when the number of interacts are limited, but it falls down when you're talking about large numbers of people interacting. Ronald Coase, who is deified in modern conservative economics circles, said as much in his seminal 1960 paper on the FCC.
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