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How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

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Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#61

Post by AJ007 »

benastan wrote: post #50
jsherry wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not even sure he was looking for sympathy. There's very little 'woe is me' in this story. I read it as a cautionary tale more than anything.

It's definitely an interesting story. The author was offering a personal experience that was enjoyable for both the guest and the host. As he said, his guests and he often established a unique connection. On the other hand: "When I delivered my rent at the beginning of the next month, I found the management company’s office under construction. It's now a hotel. The “loft-style” rooms are now listed on Airbnb for $169…

There are lots of hotels listing on airbnb. And yes, some look like they were intended to be apartments.

NYC hotel laws are strict. Its very possible what the landlord is doing is illegal. If the OP was staying in his room, may be it qualified as a bed & breakfast. I don't think the landlord would meet that qualification.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#63

Post by chrisdannen »

hack_edu wrote: post #7

Again and again, people who use Airbnb to 'hack' the rental market get little sympathy from me when the chickens come to roost. If your landlord was interested in running a tenement home/boarding house/hotel, they wouldn't sign you into a year-long lease. Also, and I know this has been hashed out before on these comment threads but he's grossing $30k a year on the back of his landlord. The landlord has every right to…

When I wrote this I wasn't looking for sympathy. Most hosts probably have nothing to worry about. What's interesting is that my landlord became my Airbnb rival. The internet's magic is enabling disintermediation -- as the tenant, I was the middleman, and my lease gave him a way to cut me out.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#64

Post by cube13 »

nsxwolf wrote: post #42

The more I think about this and how it impacts me as a landlord, I am starting to see Airbnb as (warning: the following analogy is not perfect) the Napster of lodging. I think they'd better step up and become the iTunes of lodging in this regard, before more news stories like this start creating a rift between landlords and Airbnb.

I don't think it's that much of an issue, really. The problem isn't on Airbnb's end. It's on the renters that are giving up their rental property without examining the contracts that they signed. Airbnb could probably be treated the same as subletting or renting out the property, so any clauses in the lease/association contracts that covers that should cover Airbnb.

The important thing for you, as a landlord, should be to make this clear on the contract. Whether it's increasing the deposit or rent if the renter wants to open up the property to Airbnb-like usage or just not allowing it period, it should be clear in the contract.

EDIT: Airbnb actually does state this in their terms of service:

>Accordingly, you represent and warrant that any Listing you post and the booking of, or Guest stay at, an Accommodation in a Listing you post (i) will not breach any agreements you have entered into with any third parties and (ii) will (a) be in compliance with all applicable laws, Tax requirements, and rules and regulations that may apply to any Accommodation included in a Listing you post, including, but not limited to, zoning laws and laws governing rentals of residential and other properties and (b) not conflict with the rights of third parties

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#65

Post by blafro »

Karunamon wrote: post #49
planetguy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, it's just a story. And a taste of things to come vis a vis the future of airbnb and similar services. I have no sympathy for this guy, and I have the greatest sympathy for his landlord. I'd be annoyed if anyone started using my rental property as a hotel due to the greater wear and tear; in fact, this is semi-common in the area where I own rental property so I keep an eye out for the possibility when selecting…

>wear and tear You charge $1200 to rent a dwelling out. It's $1200 flat. Whether 1 person @ 1200 or 3 people at @ 400 each. How do you somehow accrue more nebulous "wear and tear" from a temporary visitor than you would from a second lessee? It's still no more than two people at once.

This is not necessarily true. Some people rent out the living room couch as well as the spare bedroom. Besides in the second lessee case, the landlord at least gets to vet the second person.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#66

Post by mseebach »

pyre wrote: post #40
maratd wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he didn't. But he did do some damage. That's the nature of property, the more it's used, the more damage it accrues. By having "extra" people in the apartment, the property was being depreciated at a greater rate without compensation to the landlord.

I'm unsure that this makes sense. If he had picked up a roommate instead of renting on ABnB, the landlord wouldn't have gotten more money, yet there would more 'more people' causing 'more damage.'

Generally, the shorter time you're staying for, the less invested in the property and community you are. For an example, a guest will on average think less of making noise when coming in late than a tenant who will be having a longer term relationship with the neighbours.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#67

Post by nsxwolf »

cube13 wrote: post #64
nsxwolf wrote: post #42

The more I think about this and how it impacts me as a landlord, I am starting to see Airbnb as (warning: the following analogy is not perfect) the Napster of lodging. I think they'd better step up and become the iTunes of lodging in this regard, before more news stories like this start creating a rift between landlords and Airbnb.

I don't think it's that much of an issue, really. The problem isn't on Airbnb's end. It's on the renters that are giving up their rental property without examining the contracts that they signed. Airbnb could probably be treated the same as subletting or renting out the property, so any clauses in the lease/association contracts that covers that should cover Airbnb. The important thing for you, as a landlord, should…

Sure, but why not actively reach out to landlords (and city governments, etc)? Wouldn't it be better for Airbnb and everyone else if both (a) and (b) became less likely to be impediments?

I am in a fairly rare position where I'm feeling that I would actually be receptive to advocacy (and I'm a very stubborn person), but nobody's advocating anything to me yet. I feel like a music publisher in the year 2000 saying "Great idea! What would you like to see in a downloadable music service?"

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#68

Post by fennecfoxen »

Locke1689 wrote: post #38
fennecfoxen wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take a moment and see the amazing things that can be accomplished with AirBnB and marvel at the things that we do to ourselves with regulation which could make things like this practically impossible. Stifling business and innovation, deadweight losses to society, and all that economics jazz. Great for the traditional hotel industry, though, and whatever lobbyists they have at City Hall and in Albany...

Yeah, it's amazing how one can make a lot more money by violating health and safety regulations. Upton Sinclair did a great piece about how amazing it is.

Your comment is incredibly relevant and insightful because the world is black and white and our current regime, which is perfect, is all that stands between us and _The Jungle_. So-called "sensible" reforms to hotel-related legislation and economic freedom in general will only doom us all to accidental cannibalism in our hamburgers.

Seriously, this is flippin' AirBnB, not the slaughterhouse industry. I only asked you to think about the costs, not to roll everything back. Is this a knee-jerk reaction to straw-man arguments which you happen to imagine coming from your least-favorite Republicans, or what?

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#69

Post by hangnail_lobby »

Last time I used AirBNB, I rented an apartment, and 1 hr after I arrived the landlord showed up banging on the apartment door, furious, threatening to call the police.

Thankfully, my social skills calmed her down, but now the apartment leasee (lessee?) is knee deep in legal matters. Clearly the lessee broke the lease, however I'm sure she didn't really understand so at the time.

AirBNB needs to be much clearer in the listing process of the possibility and legal ramifications of violating one's lease. Especially since it ends up hurting not just the people listing apartments, and apartment owners, but also AirBNB customers who trust the listings on the service to be legitimate and lawful.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#70

Post by cabalamat »

hack_edu wrote: post #7

Again and again, people who use Airbnb to 'hack' the rental market get little sympathy from me when the chickens come to roost. If your landlord was interested in running a tenement home/boarding house/hotel, they wouldn't sign you into a year-long lease. Also, and I know this has been hashed out before on these comment threads but he's grossing $30k a year on the back of his landlord. The landlord has every right to…

> If your landlord was interested in running a tenement home/boarding house/hotel, they wouldn't sign you into a year-long lease.

But they aren't running a hotel (their tenant is), so what're they complaining about?

If I was a landlord I'd have no more problem with this than if I was a wholesaler whose customers resold the stuff retail.

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