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Why Django Sucks

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Re: Why Django Sucks

#21

Post by kmfrk »

jerf wrote: post #9

Problem: Django has features. These features, horrors , reuse each other's capabilities. Solution: Use something that has no features. I'm not sure myself how sarcastic I'm being, to be honest. There's some truth in there too (or I wouldn't have posted this). But of course your microframework doesn't have any dependency issues. Rip all those things out of Django and it wouldn't have any dependencies either. Put them…

Spoelski has a great rant about frameworks and the concept of abstractions ad nauseam: http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.219431.

In a way, frameworks are inherently stupid, but who's to decide where between assembly language and x layer abstraction people should work in?

I think people who criticize Django have yet to make up their minds about what a framework is all about, and what, if anything, it's for. They just hold on to their utopian idea of what their framework should be.

Django was created for practical purposes by people who used it in publishing. I think that's a great foundation for a framework - for some people - and piling on it is just a stupid bandwagon.

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EDIT: I found a better way to put this: the author doesn't have a problem with Django; he has a problem with the concept of frameworks.

Re: Why Django Sucks

#22

Post by raverbashing »

jbm wrote: post #14
raverbashing wrote: post #7

Personally I'd say: - Error handling: Django error page is great, unless of course it's a AJAX request. Pylons does this in a much smarter way - Django ORM is awful. Easy to use yes, but awful - Django Auth is a "good intention" but awful implementation - Django templates are sloooooow. Jinja 2 is an order of magnitude faster Amongst other warts Also, the author apparently found the hard way: don't use Django as an a…

I think you are being a bit harsh by using the quickness of Django as a 1 line throwaway - the entire purpose is for it to produce quick, simple applications. There is an entire class of problems (mainly enterprise-related) for which the simplicity (ORM / Auth / etc..) is great. I managed to tie Django Auth into Active Directory which made the user's experience (relatively) seamless, as opposed to the previous realit…

I don't disagree with you!

You can certainly use Jinja2 templates on Django, for most uses Django templates are ok

Re: Why Django Sucks

#24

Post by kenneth_reitz »

bangbang wrote: post #18

What fonts were used in this? I like.

Thanks!

Titles are High Tower Text (Flask Logo Font): http://www.fontyukle.net/en/High+Tower+Text.ttf

Text is Gaudy Bookletter 1911 (Open Source!): http://www.theleagueofmoveabletype.com/goudy-bookletter-1911

And code examples are Monofur: http://www.dafont.com/monofur.font

Re: Why Django Sucks

#25

Post by anthonyb »

zzzeek wrote: post #20
anthonyb wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh. Who needs python manage.py syncdb when you can write a function: from contextlib import closing def init_db(): with closing(connect_db()) as db: with app.open_resource('schema.sql') as f: db.cursor().executescript(f.read()) db.commit()

wtf is that ? edit: using the current toolchain it's: alembic upgrade head

It's from Flask's recipe section: http://flask.pocoo.org/docs/patterns/sqlite3/#initial-schema...

edit: not if you're using sqlite, since alembic doesn't seem to try too hard supporting it.

Re: Why Django Sucks

#27

Post by philfreo »

yesimahuman wrote: post #6

Thanks for posting this. I use Django extensively and I never really felt any pain from the tightly coupled monolithic approach, but I always like improving my tools. I will check out Flask. Any suggestions for making it easy to build REST style APIs? Is piston the #1 choice still?

http://pydanny.com/choosing-an-api-framework-for-django.html

Re: Why Django Sucks

#28

Post by mattdeboard »

jerf wrote: post #9

Problem: Django has features. These features, horrors , reuse each other's capabilities. Solution: Use something that has no features. I'm not sure myself how sarcastic I'm being, to be honest. There's some truth in there too (or I wouldn't have posted this). But of course your microframework doesn't have any dependency issues. Rip all those things out of Django and it wouldn't have any dependencies either. Put them…

You sound institutionalized. Django is indeed awesome for having a ton of features immediately. Of course, once you need to start changing those features you realize you have to dislocate your shoulder to do so.

Django is badass for what it is intended to do: be a kitchen sink. Flask is badass for what it is intended to do: be a platform for composable applications. If you ever need to reason about the internals of your web framework, you want the latter. If you don't, the former is great.

Re: Why Django Sucks

#29

Post by famousactress »

jerf wrote: post #9

Problem: Django has features. These features, horrors , reuse each other's capabilities. Solution: Use something that has no features. I'm not sure myself how sarcastic I'm being, to be honest. There's some truth in there too (or I wouldn't have posted this). But of course your microframework doesn't have any dependency issues. Rip all those things out of Django and it wouldn't have any dependencies either. Put them…

It's difficult to refute this line of thinking, except in practice.

In practice, I think large frameworks are eventually pretty terrible. It's too easy to compromise your business needs in small ways because the framework offers you something close-enough. Whether those compromises come in the form of over-coupling (which they always do with these frameworks), or in other ways like compromised URL design, query performance, or authorization plumbing.

Great at first, but in my experience a project run long enough in one of these ecosystems tends to outgrow it.

Being faced from the beginning with more of a blank sheet of paper and open ecosystem of solutions to choose from (or build) tends to make you more aware of the trade-offs, and how well the solution you're implementing fits your business needs. Costs more up front, but you're less likely to grow a hate-tumor during years 3-6.

Re: Why Django Sucks

#30

Post by blackhole »

kaiju wrote: post #23

I'm really tired of seeing memes & my little pony references in presentations. I thought we were adults?

It's easy to make a boring but informative presentation. It is much more difficult to make a funny but informative presentation. Of course, if you have no sense of humor, I must assume you are a lost traveler from Boringland.
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