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Why Django Sucks

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Re: Why Django Sucks

#11

Post by papercruncher »

yesimahuman wrote: post #6

Thanks for posting this. I use Django extensively and I never really felt any pain from the tightly coupled monolithic approach, but I always like improving my tools. I will check out Flask. Any suggestions for making it easy to build REST style APIs? Is piston the #1 choice still?

Yes, still the #1 choice in my books, especially if your APIs do not match your models 1:1. Tastypie is cute but gets in your way a little too often for my liking. Django-rest is another contender but I haven't tried that yet

Re: Why Django Sucks

#12

Post by btipling »

The benefits of using Django include not having to rebuild a lot of boiler plate features again and again. Things like the admin panel for example. When I used web.py I always had to build some kind of way to manage users easily. Login pages, logout pages, error pages.

I do not know much about Flask and it looks like it has some bare bones middleware and context processor tools, but it doesn't look like it does much more than what web.py offered, well except for all the testing tools (which look pretty cool).

Sure the article has a good argument about separating components, but before you propose your alternative you should include all of those features (decoupled I suppose) that Django does for you already. In addition the patterns page[1] on the Flask documentation is basically a cookbook for things that Django already does, and by the way encourage the one code base architecture this presentation argued against.

[1] http://flask.pocoo.org/docs/patterns/

Re: Why Django Sucks

#13

Post by btipling »

jerf wrote: post #9

Problem: Django has features. These features, horrors , reuse each other's capabilities. Solution: Use something that has no features. I'm not sure myself how sarcastic I'm being, to be honest. There's some truth in there too (or I wouldn't have posted this). But of course your microframework doesn't have any dependency issues. Rip all those things out of Django and it wouldn't have any dependencies either. Put them…

You just posted what I had intended to say, only you said it better.

Re: Why Django Sucks

#14

Post by jbm »

raverbashing wrote: post #7

Personally I'd say: - Error handling: Django error page is great, unless of course it's a AJAX request. Pylons does this in a much smarter way - Django ORM is awful. Easy to use yes, but awful - Django Auth is a "good intention" but awful implementation - Django templates are sloooooow. Jinja 2 is an order of magnitude faster Amongst other warts Also, the author apparently found the hard way: don't use Django as an a…

I think you are being a bit harsh by using the quickness of Django as a 1 line throwaway - the entire purpose is for it to produce quick, simple applications.

There is an entire class of problems (mainly enterprise-related) for which the simplicity (ORM / Auth / etc..) is great. I managed to tie Django Auth into Active Directory which made the user's experience (relatively) seamless, as opposed to the previous reality (everyone with a different password for different applications).

Can't you also use Jinja templates in Django?

I'm not convinced that I would use Django on a large project where I get to cooperate with 15-20 other programmers, but if the scenario is 3 people with relatively normal business requirements it makes a lot of sense.

YMMV.

Re: Why Django Sucks

#15

Post by anthonyb »

jerf wrote: post #9

Problem: Django has features. These features, horrors , reuse each other's capabilities. Solution: Use something that has no features. I'm not sure myself how sarcastic I'm being, to be honest. There's some truth in there too (or I wouldn't have posted this). But of course your microframework doesn't have any dependency issues. Rip all those things out of Django and it wouldn't have any dependencies either. Put them…

Exactly, and I have exactly the same eye twitch every time someone recommends tearing out Django's ORM "because it's shit" and replacing it with SQLAlchemy.

Each of those arrows from slide 25 on should have a little label: "Things that you have to write yourself in Flask."

Re: Why Django Sucks

#16

Post by drivebyacct2 »

Apreche wrote: post #10

I use Django and Flask quite a bit. They are the first two things I go to for building a site. For a small site, usually without a database, I mostly use Flask. For a large site with all the common features like auth and such, I use Django. Yeah, it has its bad points, but that's ok. It's worth suffering through whatever those bad points are because it has one gigantic good point. You don't have to reinvent the wheel…

I think his point is that this: "You have to go get a third party auth system" is a good thing. That way if the auth implementation needs to change, it can more easily if it's loosely coupled to the application.

Re: Why Django Sucks

#17

Post by anthonyb »

btipling wrote: post #12

The benefits of using Django include not having to rebuild a lot of boiler plate features again and again. Things like the admin panel for example. When I used web.py I always had to build some kind of way to manage users easily. Login pages, logout pages, error pages. I do not know much about Flask and it looks like it has some bare bones middleware and context processor tools, but it doesn't look like it does much…

Heh. Who needs

  python manage.py syncdb
when you can write a function:

  from contextlib import closing
  def init_db():
      with closing(connect_db()) as db:
          with app.open_resource('schema.sql') as f:
              db.cursor().executescript(f.read())
          db.commit()

Re: Why Django Sucks

#19

Post by anthonyb »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #16
Apreche wrote: post #10

I use Django and Flask quite a bit. They are the first two things I go to for building a site. For a small site, usually without a database, I mostly use Flask. For a large site with all the common features like auth and such, I use Django. Yeah, it has its bad points, but that's ok. It's worth suffering through whatever those bad points are because it has one gigantic good point. You don't have to reinvent the wheel…

I think his point is that this: "You have to go get a third party auth system" is a good thing. That way if the auth implementation needs to change, it can more easily if it's loosely coupled to the application.

Django's auth system is not that hard to hack on if you need to - in most cases you just need to write a custom backend and implement a few methods on it. It's certainly comparable to writing your own, or downloading something and integrating it.

Re: Why Django Sucks

#20

Post by zzzeek »

anthonyb wrote: post #17
btipling wrote: post #12

The benefits of using Django include not having to rebuild a lot of boiler plate features again and again. Things like the admin panel for example. When I used web.py I always had to build some kind of way to manage users easily. Login pages, logout pages, error pages. I do not know much about Flask and it looks like it has some bare bones middleware and context processor tools, but it doesn't look like it does much…

Heh. Who needs python manage.py syncdb when you can write a function: from contextlib import closing def init_db(): with closing(connect_db()) as db: with app.open_resource('schema.sql') as f: db.cursor().executescript(f.read()) db.commit()

wtf is that ?

edit: using the current toolchain it's:

    alembic upgrade head
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