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Greece introduces the six day work week

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Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#91

Post by TacticalCoder »

ses1984 wrote: post #46
EncomLab wrote: post #23

AGI and General Purpose robots are both so far off in the future they should be considered science fiction at this point. The "Woz Standard" - a robot is dropped in front of a random house and proceeds without any assistance to brew a cup of coffee - is hard to imagine being met before 2040, if not even later.

I like making coffee. Cleaning my bathroom seems like a better benchmark.

> Cleaning my bathroom seems like a better benchmark.

Unclogging pipes full of toilet paper, pee and shit (I have to do that once in a, thankfully, rare while) is mine. The robots must be able to go in the garden, find the manholes, verify where the pee and shit are clogged, and fix it.

When do we have that?

P.S: every time I couldn't fix it myself, I called a company specialized in that sort of thing. Interestingly I never ever saw a woman show up. It was always men. Just as the new automatic registering of 18/26 y/o people for military only concerns men. It's interesting how the sex equality ain't respected in these cases.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#92

Post by eesmith »

timonoko wrote: post #25

Fascinating thing about america 50 years ago was it seemed to work 24/7. In Finlandia it was illegal to work after 16:00. Then we got a nazi government who decided that small shops and kiosks can extend their hours upto 18:00. Worst thing was that there was no bank services outside 8:00-16:00. This was a blessing sort of, because Finland was the only country you could get bank services with a modem in 1970's. In 1983…

"Seemed" meaning through the media you watched while living in Finland? And you think that gives a good representative view of what the US was like in the 1970s? The news and shows you watched from the US were mostly made in large cities in California and New York.

Parts of the US in the 1970s certainly had blue laws similar to what you mention.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_laws_in_the_United_States mentions that "Maine was the last New England state to repeal laws that prohibited department stores from opening on Sundays. The laws against the department stores opening on Sundays were ended by referendum in 1990." and that in North Dakota it wasn't until 1991 that most business were allowed to be open on Sunday, and 1988 for Virginia.

For that matter, TV stations would stop broadcasting during the late night, with about 6 hours of dead air, not the 24/7 of modern stations. Fall asleep watching Carson and you might be woken up by the national anthem played just before shutdown.

No doubt your exaggerations cause the downvotes. It was not illegal to work after 16:00, even in Finland. Who ran the restaurants? The buses? The power company? The phones? The hospitals? The hotels?

This 1979 travel guide for US tourists, at https://archive.org/details/fieldingseurope10000fiel/page/28... , says shopping hours in Finland (or at least Helsinki) at that time were "Weekdays, 8:30 A.M. to 5 P.M., plus 8 P.M. on Monday and Friday; Saturday 8:30 A.M. to 4 P.M. in winter, with 3 P.M. closings in summer."

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#93

Post by aaomidi »

marcusverus wrote: post #87
imiric wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the gains from increased productivity have been reaped by executives, not workers. You keep working the same hours to make your bosses more money, when you could be working less instead. This income gap has been widening since the 1970s[1,2]. [1]: https://www.cbpp.org/research/poverty-and-inequality/a-guide... [2]: https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-2018/

Nope. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N

That number makes absolutely no sense considering how much more basic stuff like housing is now.

Income going up does not actually mean anything without taking into consideration that people are less likely to be able to buy a house now than 50 years ago.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#94

Post by navane »

krasin wrote: post #7

Two things happen at the same time: 1. people say that robots are taking all the jobs 2. countries raise retirement age & adopt 6 day work week, because there's too much work to be done I am not entirely sure, but maybe robots are not that bad, assuming appropriate taxation to fund pensions & 5-day work weeks?

The robots aren't paying any taxes. The countries pay for retirements from people's taxes.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#95

Post by glenndebacker »

clarada wrote: post #59

Gotta love the EU and how well it sticks up for workers' rights and economic stability.

The situation in Europe is worsening rapidly, and it's not just in Greece—it's a trend across several countries. The rise of nationalist parties has increased the influence of corporate lobbies as well.

Migrants frequently bear the brunt of blame in this environment. Additionally, there's a troubling misuse of subsidies and tax breaks, with funds often channelled to companies who exploit them solely to boost their profits, rather than fulfilling their intended benefits.

Certainly, in Belgium, this issue is significant. We allocate billions in tax breaks for research and innovation, yet politicians sometimes appear at technology fairs showcasing outdated VR technology as if it were still groundbreaking in 2014. Now, they are using lag in the development of AI as a way to justify new tax breaks, all the while proposing cuts to social benefits.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#96

Post by RandomLensman »

emporas wrote: post #89
RandomLensman wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't know what it means why do you think it significant? Anyway, what is "serious automation" for you?

Ok, it's not right? I will add an edit. I don't know about particular financial instruments, but i do know about the economy. Automation is constant in everything we do. For example: Protectionism of an economy is a way to fight automation, imposing tariffs on importing cars is exactly that [1]. Trump also plans to do it. Uber is banned in Greece, or at least not totally legal, and Airbnb the same. Interfacing with a…

Sounds in the video like some AAA CMBS had losses (not sure I'd call that a derivative, though). What I meant is why digress into it when it is not your area expertise.

I am not sure I understand how zoning laws are stopping automation or how banning Uber is stopping automation.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#97

Post by cyberax »

stavros wrote: post #60
cyberax wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a whole bunch of toxic factors working synergistically. The Greek economy is dominated by low-wage tourist-oriented businesses, a whopping 20-30% of employed people are directly involved in them. And they have to compete against Turkey, Egypt, and other low-income countries. These businesses simply cannot pay high salaries, there's no profit margin for it. So people don't want to work in these miserable conditio…

Those low-wage tourist-oriented businesses are making crazy high margins and paying workers peanuts. Beaches keep getting gobbled up by multimillion-euro hotel complexes (unconstitutionally) so they can make money hand over fist by taking advantage of public property (with the appropriate kickbacks to the local politicians), while the local economy benefits minimally from whatever minimum-wage jobs are created in the…

> Those low-wage tourist-oriented businesses are making crazy high margins and paying workers peanuts.

They are really not.

I looked into this in 2019, when I was making a backup plan to get an investor visa in the EU. You can buy a hotel business in Greece for basically peanuts, but it is almost impossible to make _any_ profit without resorting to shady tactics.

That's also why large chains can move in so easily. They can spread a lot of expenses and risks across multiple properties.

It's not a healthy situation to be in.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#98

Post by brewtide »

MiguelX413 wrote: post #74
echoangle wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it? It’s not like the amount of work to do is fixed and once it’s done, everyone can relax for the rest of the year. There’s always work to do and progress just speeds up as work becomes more efficient.

Why not just stop once we've done the same work as in the past?

Shiny new phones every year, bigger better faster shinier cars, Fancier meals, must have gadgets, keeping a keen eye on the Jones's, better fuller lawn without weeds, that paved driveway you've always wanted, a faster computer, better heating systems, brand name clothing...

When needs and wants get all mixed up, there is always more to be done.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#99

Post by xtracto »

litoE wrote: post #29
giantg2 wrote: post #2

6 days used to be normal generations ago, and still is in many parts of the world. Perhaps we're just in a golden age that's about to end.

In Chile in the 1950s they had a 48-hour work (and school) week: Monday through Saturday. However, it was common for people to just not show up for work on Mondays, jocularly referred to as "celebrating Saint Monday's Day", even though they forfeited one day's pay. In 1959 the government implemented a new program: if you worked the full 6 days you were paid for 7 days. If you worked less than 6 days, you were only pa…

Here in Mexico it's pretty normal for companies to require working mon to sat.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#100

Post by stavros »

cyberax wrote: post #97
stavros wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those low-wage tourist-oriented businesses are making crazy high margins and paying workers peanuts. Beaches keep getting gobbled up by multimillion-euro hotel complexes (unconstitutionally) so they can make money hand over fist by taking advantage of public property (with the appropriate kickbacks to the local politicians), while the local economy benefits minimally from whatever minimum-wage jobs are created in the…

> Those low-wage tourist-oriented businesses are making crazy high margins and paying workers peanuts. They are really not. I looked into this in 2019, when I was making a backup plan to get an investor visa in the EU. You can buy a hotel business in Greece for basically peanuts, but it is almost impossible to make _any_ profit without resorting to shady tactics. That's also why large chains can move in so easily. Th…

I'll trust your analysis, but how do you explain the extremely high prices nowadays? I went to a beach yesterday, and they wanted 75 EUR to rent an umbrella and two beds for a few hours. That's three days' wages for a Greek, how is this a low-margin business? Opex is minimal (basically bar staff), Capex is minimal (a bunch of beds and umbrellas), where's all the money going?

Maybe it's only hotels that are low-margin, with Airbnb being a competitor, but otherwise everything is too expensive for any Greek to afford to go on vacation in our own country any more. The money must be going somewhere.

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