Greece introduces the six day work week • Hacker News Board

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#81

Post by RandomLensman » Sat, Jun 22, 2024, 9:00 PM UTC

emporas wrote: post #70

RandomLensman wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What triple A derivatives are blowing up?

George Gammon made a video yesterday about it. I don't personally know what derivatives even mean, but i do know in 2007 something like that happened, triple A derivatives of mortgages or something. Even if that's not it, the bubbles will start pop off soon, end of summer or end of the year, and it will take years for the process to complete, 5 years probably. For 5 years, each bubble will pop one by one. My point is…

If you don't know what it means why do you think it significant?

Anyway, what is "serious automation" for you?

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#82

Post by solarkraft » Sat, Jun 22, 2024, 9:03 PM UTC

imiric wrote: post #77

klysm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No amount of automation has ever seemed to result in a net reduction in work to do thus far

Because the gains from increased productivity have been reaped by executives, not workers. You keep working the same hours to make your bosses more money, when you could be working less instead. This income gap has been widening since the 1970s[1,2]. [1]: https://www.cbpp.org/research/poverty-and-inequality/a-guide... [2]: https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-2018/

This is true (and a problem worth debating).

But it would intuitively suggest that the total amount of work to do would reduce. Instead, somehow, we have always found new stuff to do in the past.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#83

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Sat, Jun 22, 2024, 9:06 PM UTC

stavros wrote: post #64

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One wonders if increasing the compensation offered for these jobs might result in less vacancies. I mean, I've heard theories (only theories, mind you) that this could have some effect. Seems unlikely, but maybe worth a try?

There are no vacancies. On the contrary, there's a whole slew of 20-somethings willing to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for six months for 1k/mo so they have some money during the winter.

From TFA:

> However, at least the pay is good on Mykonos, which cannot be said for some of the less well-known Greek holiday destinations.

> All of this is why hotel-owners in regions like the popular Chalkidiki peninsula in northern Greece are having trouble finding enough workers. As a result, some restaurants and hotels in Greece will open late this summer.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#84

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Sat, Jun 22, 2024, 9:07 PM UTC

stavros wrote: post #64

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One wonders if increasing the compensation offered for these jobs might result in less vacancies. I mean, I've heard theories (only theories, mind you) that this could have some effect. Seems unlikely, but maybe worth a try?

There are no vacancies. On the contrary, there's a whole slew of 20-somethings willing to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for six months for 1k/mo so they have some money during the winter.

From the opening text of TFA:

> From the construction industry to the tourism sector, Greek employers cannot find the staff they need.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#85

Post by kkfx » Sat, Jun 22, 2024, 9:10 PM UTC

This is a classic sign of a ruling class derailed. They have pushed a series of education reform to create "better useful idiots" https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/08/i-was-usef... and then they collect as a result a large slice of people unable to do anything, rulers included, so as long as those who know retire there is no way to go ahead.

I think it's too late to recover, there will be a social collapse, a war as usual to cover and control the people and a slow recover. I only hope that respect of the past this time those who have caused the collapse for their personal interest will not make it again.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#86

Post by stavros » Sat, Jun 22, 2024, 9:11 PM UTC

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #83

stavros wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no vacancies. On the contrary, there's a whole slew of 20-somethings willing to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for six months for 1k/mo so they have some money during the winter.

From TFA: > However, at least the pay is good on Mykonos, which cannot be said for some of the less well-known Greek holiday destinations. > All of this is why hotel-owners in regions like the popular Chalkidiki peninsula in northern Greece are having trouble finding enough workers. As a result, some restaurants and hotels in Greece will open late this summer.

Well, at least TFA is right about the horrid conditions. I don't know how right it is about the shortage, I'll tell you tomorrow when I'm there. The prices are already exorbitant, though, so I'd be surprised if the business owners couldn't afford to pay workers a bit more to entice them to come.

If there's a worker shortage, why will hotels open later? Sounds to me like an excuse to cover up a less-busy-than-expected opening season.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#87

Post by marcusverus » Sat, Jun 22, 2024, 9:11 PM UTC

imiric wrote: post #77

klysm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No amount of automation has ever seemed to result in a net reduction in work to do thus far

Because the gains from increased productivity have been reaped by executives, not workers. You keep working the same hours to make your bosses more money, when you could be working less instead. This income gap has been widening since the 1970s[1,2]. [1]: https://www.cbpp.org/research/poverty-and-inequality/a-guide... [2]: https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-2018/

Nope.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#88

Post by Arnt » Sat, Jun 22, 2024, 9:12 PM UTC

SeanAnderson wrote: post #22

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One wonders if increasing the compensation offered for these jobs might result in less vacancies. I mean, I've heard theories (only theories, mind you) that this could have some effect. Seems unlikely, but maybe worth a try?

I don't know a lot about Greek economy. It seems like it could be a scenario where consumers can't afford higher prices. If prices goes up then consumers bail, companies go out of business, unemployment goes down but total available jobs goes down, too. Instead, everyone's grinding their way to the bottom which isn't great, either.

The Greek economy is highly seasonal. There's tourist season and off season.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#89

Post by emporas » Sat, Jun 22, 2024, 9:12 PM UTC

RandomLensman wrote: post #81

emporas wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

George Gammon made a video yesterday about it. I don't personally know what derivatives even mean, but i do know in 2007 something like that happened, triple A derivatives of mortgages or something. Even if that's not it, the bubbles will start pop off soon, end of summer or end of the year, and it will take years for the process to complete, 5 years probably. For 5 years, each bubble will pop one by one. My point is…

If you don't know what it means why do you think it significant? Anyway, what is "serious automation" for you?

Ok, it's not right? I will add an edit. I don't know about particular financial instruments, but i do know about the economy.

Automation is constant in everything we do. For example: Protectionism of an economy is a way to fight automation, imposing tariffs on importing cars is exactly that [1]. Trump also plans to do it.

Uber is banned in Greece, or at least not totally legal, and Airbnb the same. Interfacing with any government not totally electronically (like Esthonia) is stopping automation. House zoning laws, and permissions for buildings is also stopping automation.

The list goes on and on.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-imp...

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#90

Post by glenndebacker » Sat, Jun 22, 2024, 9:12 PM UTC

kjksf wrote: post #20

I'm confused because economically it doesn't add up. Shortages of labor should lead to higher wages. Supply and demand. So it would make sense to relax laws prohibiting working more than 40hrs in order to unleash additional economic output i.e. increase the amount of money made. The article claims that for some reason that defies logic, it will just make employers demand more work for same amount of money. I see two…

In Belgium, the "loonnormwet" or "wage norm law" controls how much workers are paid to ensure the country stays competitive. Jobs are also classified into pay scales based on their type and the qualifications needed.

This means that even if technical jobs are in high demand, if you have a lower educational degree — which is often the case — you might not earn much more because of it. As a result, these jobs may not attract many job seekers.

This situation creates a cycle where lower wages make these jobs less desirable, which can lead to difficulties in finding enough qualified workers. Now, business lobby groups like VOKA are considering bringing in immigrants from Mexico and India to fill these lower-paying positions.