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Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

theolivepress.es

351–360 of 375 posts

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#352

Good. Tourists should sleep in hotels and locals should sleep in their flats. Platforms like AirBnB only put oil in the fire when it comes to housing crises.

It's interesting hotels that feel like an AirBnB don't really exist. Even though the professional AirBnB hosts are doing all the functions that hotels do. Why not the reverse.

There are aparthotels that offer larger living area and amenities such as a kitchen, a normal fridge, and laundry facilities, similar to an Airbnb. Additionally, they provide 24/7 reception, a breakfast room, optional maid service, much like a hotel. This has become a popular option in Europe recently.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that the "airbnb" areas drive normal citizens out which during off-seasons drains foot traffic making local shops go out of business which further complicates the problem. Not to mention that most tourists don't even sit around the local area, but rather go to the city attractions. Airbnb and resident housing areas are just not compatible, they have different needs and require different infrastructure. H…

And then there's the effect on property prices. AirBnBs charge international prices, which creates a property market skewed by international investment. I live in a tourist area, and prices here have gone up by between 100% at the low end to over 500% at the high end. These are mostly holiday homes and holiday rentals, and the locals can't afford to live here any more - either renting or buying. One of the results ha…

> charge international prices, which creates a property market skewed by international investment.

That ship has looong sailed. Especially in the days of full-time remote work jobs. Especially in the EU.

I wish a big barrel of industrial-grade luck to the good people of Barcelona! They definitely need it, because the changes they implemented so far (introducing rent control) did not help.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#355
post #78

This sounds silly. 70% is ~5.4% yearly, 40% is 3.4% growth yearly. Seems, fine? These are incredibly reasonable growth rates. Am I missing something?

You are missing that Spain's economy is not growing like the USA's.

Spanish wages grew only 2.7%/yr L10Y [1], and its nominal GDP/capita looks completely flat [2].

This explains why the city is affordable for international tourists but not locals. Regardless, a high "tourist tax" would probably be better for their economy than an outright ban.

[1] https://www.ine.es/jaxiT3/Tabla.htm?t=59150

[2] Compare https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=spain+gdp+per+capita+10... vs https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=USA+gdp+per+capita+10+y...

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#356
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I think of places dominated by tourism its not the tourism that did it. Its that the tourism is what is left after little other job growth in any other sector after whatever impetus that triggered building the town in the first places ceased to exist.

My personal example would be the old Turner Field in Atlanta. Major sports team, but the area was a wasteland, because everything was developed around the 50,000 people flooding in for one afternoon. Parking lots, traffic flow, food stands. The actual neighborhood was pretty dead. Braves move up to a new stadium in Cobb county, some redevelopment, and now the old neighborhood is flourishing. Saw the same as a (briefl…

Atlanta is a diversified economy though. When I think tourist dominated I think tourism is the main industry. Places like in the Caribbean that had to turn to that industry after the economics of whatever former niche cash crop the imperialists grew was obviated due to globalism.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#357
post #221

People will do literally anything over building enough housing to make everyone happy

Spain is not the US. Barcelona had been building a lot of housing. Its not enough as they get converted to airbnbs or get scooped up by rich foreigners or foreign investment funds.

Lol what? Maybe back in 2007 before the crash that ruined tons of Spanish construction companies and investment in real estate. Otherwise the US builds a lot, and apparently Barcelona still doesn't build enough.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#358
post #342
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please make your substantive points without swipes (like "that's unintelligible" and "people like you"). This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . Edit: yikes, you've unfortunately been breaking the site guidelines repeatedly and badly—examples: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40743149 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40743095 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4074…

Under this post and in every single post you referenced, people are taking the largest swipes at entire countries, even peoples/races without any repercussions. > please make sure you're not using HN primarily for political or ideological battle All the threads you referenced are filled with people using the site in a political and ideological manner. There are people who are literally doing propaganda against entire…

I'd need links to specific posts to say anything about them, but you're right that other people also break the rules. That doesn't make it ok for you to break the rules! It's not ok for either you or them to break the rules.

> the rules seem to be getting applied selectively

Every commenter with strong passions feels like the mods apply the rules selectively and must therefore be on the other side. The people you disagree with are just as sure that we're secretly on your side. I say that with confidence even though I don't remember anything about your views at this moment, nor which side any of you are on.

The reason is sample bias. Everyone notices other people breaking the rules, but which cases you notice depends on your pre-existing views. What we (I mean all of us, i.e. humans generally) notice is governed by what we dislike [1]. We assign the most meaning to the cases that feel most unfair or offensive to us. Since everyone selects these based on their own feelings, opposite feelings lead to different samples and opposite conclusions.

When you see a post that ought to have been moderated but hasn't been, the likeliest explanation is that we just didn't see it. We don't come close to seeing everything that gets posted. Also, I'm the only moderator who responds publicly and I can only write so much—not just because I have other responsibilities to worry about, but also because if I make even a slight mistake, it can (and often has) made a situation worse. It's a little bit like writing software in, I don't know, Agda as opposed to JS or something. You can't do it as fast or as much.

Which posts I respond to vs. not is determined by two factors: (a) what has been brought to my attention by others; and (b) randomness. If you or anyone sees a post that ought to be moderated, you can bring it to our/my attention by either flagging it (see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html#cflag for how), or in egregious cases, by emailing hn@ycombinator.com.

Moderation can't be consistent in any way that would require reviewing all posts, but it can be relatively [2] consistent as long as we work with random-enough samples and handle them in a principled-enough way. That's what we aspire to. We're not perfect at it, but we do at least have years of practice.

This works well enough to signal to most of the community that (a) HN is moderated, and (b) that it's moderated reasonably fairly [3]. But it leaves many cases that don't get moderated all, which means there are plenty of data points which people can select to draw whatever conclusions they want to about HN moderation—and believe me, they do!

We've all had this experience in other contexts. Take cops and speeding tickets. There's always a "me? why me?" reaction when you get pulled over. Plenty of other cars were speeding faster! The cops must have ulterior motives for picking on me [4]. Even if my brain knows about random samples, the feelings still work this way. Another example is sports and referees. The passionate fans are the quickest to feel that the refs are making calls unfairly, and it always feels like the calls are unfair against your team.

One last point, in the unlikely event that you read this far... when I said "we don't care about your views" I did not mean to belittle your views or to imply that they're about something unimportant. On the contrary, the divisive topics are extremely important—far more important than most things that appear on HN. I just meant that we don't (or at least try our best not to) consider your views when making moderation calls. And of course by "you" I don't just mean you personally, I mean everybody.

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[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

[2] I say 'relatively' because this is a complex problem with lots of failure modes, but they don't change the important point above.

[3] Wait, haven't I just contradicted myself, after talking about all the users who feel we're unfair? No, because the driving factor is the passions of the perceiver. The more passionately you (i.e. anyone) feels about a topic, the more this dynamic kicks in. Most of the community doesn't have strong passions on a given topic, so even when they see the same data points as you, they won't select them as evidence of unfairness. They'll also be more likely to notice cases of the mods scolding the other side as well, and to assign equal weight to those. In other words, the very things that indicate unfairness to you will feel like fairness to them. This is how the same moderation approach can both reassure the majority while at the same time convincing passionate partisans (on any side of any topic) that the system is biased against them. For a couple collections of vivid examples, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26148870.

[4] And maybe they do? This argument doesn't prove there's no bias; it just shows that any system, even the most unbiased, will produce strong feelings of bias no matter what you do.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#359
post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in two tourism-heavy cities over my life, I don't think most cites are fundamentally opposed to tourism per se. But — and that is a big "But" it is a question of the amount and the kind of tourism. Too much of the wrong tourism in the wrong area of the city can be a negative thing for living quality, for life outside touristic seasons, for the general development of neighborhoods etc. So it is within a c…

> Too much of the wrong tourism in the wrong area of the city can be a negative thing for living quality, for life outside touristic seasons, for the general development of neighborhoods etc. If that was really a concern, cities like Barcelona would be railing against hostels and would impose a higher baseline for tourist taxes to eliminate the economic feasibility of projects catering to low-cost party tourism.

Well yes and no. Cities do have hostels and hotels under control by their ability to give or deny permits. If everybody can turn their private flat into an tourist rental just by signing up to an online platform that is no longer the case. Suddenly what was zoned as residental turns into tourism.

Surely there are multiple ways ro tackle that, e.g. one could require permits for those as well, but I didn't defend the measures taken by Barcelona, I defended the fact that unregulated AirBnB can turn into a problem for a city and the people living there.

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