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EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

jalopnik.com

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Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#81

Post by sliken »

nunez wrote: post #78
cebert wrote: post #9

I am in the market for a new vehicle and am strongly considering purchasing an EV. Tesla’s lineup seems stale to me. The Model 3 is relatively modern. However, the Model Y is due for a refresh but project Juniper has been delayed. The Model X, and S are also stale. Competition offers fresh models with more better build quality and design. Tesla seems to be falling behind.

I have a 2024 Model 3 LR. It is very nice. Yes, it is stalkless. You get used to this in minutes, and, IME, stalks feel antiquated soon after that. It drives really well and is a much smoother and quieter ride than our 2020 Model 3 LR without sacrificing performance. I also drove the 2022 Model S refresh. This car was also very nice, but it feels heavy and, in my opinion, doesn't command the cost they're asking for i…

Do your buttons on the steering wheel click? Apparently the clicks are on the chopping block as well.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#82

Post by jkmcf »

cebert wrote: post #9

I am in the market for a new vehicle and am strongly considering purchasing an EV. Tesla’s lineup seems stale to me. The Model 3 is relatively modern. However, the Model Y is due for a refresh but project Juniper has been delayed. The Model X, and S are also stale. Competition offers fresh models with more better build quality and design. Tesla seems to be falling behind.

Personal preference: the model S is one of the nicest looking cars ever designed.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#83

Post by consumer451 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #68
ripjaygn wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Current market leader is Mercedes with an SAE Level 3 vehicle That's not a market leader when it just follows the car in front and has significant limitations. Cannot even change lanes Works only in traffic jams and heavy traffic Works only under 40MPH Works only on specific highways (which need to be mapped?) Works only in daylight, does not work at night Does not work in rain

Is the only Level 3 vehicle on the roads in Germany and now California and Nevada. Until Tesla steps up and says you don’t have to pay attention, that the car can drive itself and if it fucks up it’s on Tesla, it’s Level 2. Not in the lead. > it just follows the car in front No, that’s active lane keeping. My Subaru does that. > Cannot even change lanes Yes it does [1]. > Works only under 40MPH If you want to exceed…

> But it’s still Level 2 because you are still supposed to closely supervise it.

I just recently noticed that Tesla now officially calls it "Full Self-Driving (Supervised)" in their manual.

https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_us/GUID-2CB6080...

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#84

Post by sshine »

gilbetron wrote: post #61
sshine wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing stale about sitting in a Tesla. For most other EVs, it still feels like you're sitting in a car. The main reason I'd consider something other than a Tesla today: - What's the maximum range - How much range do you get for the price - What's the total cost (there are cheaper cars that look great) As far as I'm concerned, nothing is outright beating Tesla on design. It's hard to beat simplicity. Also, si…

Teslas are very stale inside. The "tablet as 99% of the interface" is horrible and should be left in the 20teens. Physical buttons for the most important interactions with the car are in all ways better. I understand why they do this, they are going all in on autonomous driving, so sure. I recently purchased an EV and when I sat in the Tesla, I hated it. I don't want to play the iPad driving game.

If I were to eventually buy a non-Tesla, getting one with actual buttons would not be on the “thank gods I’m finally free from this!” list.

Windshield wipers where “auto” actually works.

Not having the car system (music, AC, etc.) turn off because the driver left the car.

High road noise

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#85

Post by cbeach »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #77
cbeach wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s “stale” about the S/X, which were refreshed relatively recently, and which are still untouchable in terms of performance? The interior is wholly different from the original Model S/X and the exterior still looks great, all these years after the original release. Why must a manufacturer change a great design just to satisfy the subset of customers who have an irrational need for annual novelty? Surely the sales…

Maybe some people don't want to pay 2024 prices for a 2012 design? Front grill aside, the Model S design has barely budged since its debut, and the X is only 3 years newer. There's almost nothing differentiating a used S/X from a new one to a passerby, and that's not something everyone buying new likes. Tesla isn't Porsche, their designs are getting stale.

People often buy new iPhones despite the exterior design barely changing since 2017.

When it comes to phones, buyers are smart enough to realise that it's what's inside that counts - the processor, screen tech, cameras etc. They understand that iterating these components is more important than iterating the superficial shell they're housed in.

Unfortunately the car market is irrational. Some customers want superficial new shells every year, in order to show off to others that they're wealthy enough to refresh their car.

These kind of customers may not appreciate that since 2012, Tesla has delivered several radical new Model S vehicles, albeit in the same skin. The Model S has been:

* transitioned from a single motor to triple motors (for extra performance and torque vectoring).

* increased its power from 363 hp to 1020 hp, with a breakthrough carbon-wrapped rotor allowing much higher RPM, and improved drivetrain efficiency.

* replaced its 60kWh battery pack with a 100kWh pack, improving range, longevity, power delivery and charging speed.

* made major iterations to the computer, with many new capabilities added in hardware and software.

* improved full self driving to the point where it can navigate city streets with barely any intervention.

* completely revamped the interior. Ventilated seats. Rear screen. Acoustic glass. Improved legroom and headroom. Heat pump for HVAC

---

There are many benefits to customers in Tesla preserving the exterior shell of the vehicle - in particular it means servicing is easier and cheaper, as there is less variation in parts between model years. Accessories from earlier cars are compatible with later cars. There is less needless devaluation of older models.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#86

Post by ProfessorLayton »

cbeach wrote: post #85
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe some people don't want to pay 2024 prices for a 2012 design? Front grill aside, the Model S design has barely budged since its debut, and the X is only 3 years newer. There's almost nothing differentiating a used S/X from a new one to a passerby, and that's not something everyone buying new likes. Tesla isn't Porsche, their designs are getting stale.

People often buy new iPhones despite the exterior design barely changing since 2017. When it comes to phones, buyers are smart enough to realise that it's what's inside that counts - the processor, screen tech, cameras etc. They understand that iterating these components is more important than iterating the superficial shell they're housed in. Unfortunately the car market is irrational. Some customers want superficia…

2017 iPhones don't share any sheet metal with 2024 iPhones the way Teslas do [1]. Yes iPhones share similar design language but their design has not stood completely still for a decade.

Other car companies are evolving their tech and their designs, while Tesla is seemingly only doing half of that.

[1] Unless we want to count the iPhone SE, their cheapest budget-oriented phone, but that only proves my point further that new designs are valued more.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#87

Post by averageRoyalty »

gmoore wrote: post #66

I don't think this just about 'the competition getting wiser' or 'the market for EV's getting bigger'. People aren't buying Tesla because of Musk. Maybe not every missed sale is for that reason - but if you think for one minute that his behavior and his positions doesn't affect car sales - you're simply mistaken.

I doubt it's significant. If you're not super online or in tech, it's very likely you don't know much about Musk. Millions of people own Teslas who know little to nothing about him. It's got to be a single digit percentage who don't buy because of him.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#88

Post by averageRoyalty »

akmarinov wrote: post #58
etrautmann wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would anyone need a new car every three years? I understand people want new stuff, but that's insanity.

Lease elapsed - might as well?

How strange. So you didn't ever buy the car? You never owned it, but paid for - I assume - a percentage of its sticker price over 3 years? Then do you get a credit for a new one?

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#89

Post by averageRoyalty »

drcongo wrote: post #8

There's loads of really good EVs on the market these days, why would anyone need to buy one that's so user hostile as to have non-functioning wipers.

I hear this all the time and have never had an issue with my wipers or found it to be "user hostile".

I'm also yet to see another EV with comparable range, price and performance in my market. The Polestar is close. Plenty hit 2/3.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#90

Post by averageRoyalty »

emmelaich wrote: post #75
tsimionescu wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Key point being in 2023 . Meanwhile, so far in 2024, they have sold fewer cars than this time last year. This is not unexpected after a massive success in one year, except for people who like to imagine that growth continues forever.

Yep, 2023. And? This article was published a few days ago. My point that there are some very pro-Tesla articles as well as many quite negative ones. You and others have misinterpreted my post. Maybe I should have elaborated.

What in your linked article do you think is falsely framed or incorrect?

It doesn't seem political or polarised to report on the top selling EV with the latest available data. Are you suggesting Drive wouldn't have if it were another brand selling the most?

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