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EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

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Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#61

Post by gilbetron »

sshine wrote: post #57
cebert wrote: post #9

I am in the market for a new vehicle and am strongly considering purchasing an EV. Tesla’s lineup seems stale to me. The Model 3 is relatively modern. However, the Model Y is due for a refresh but project Juniper has been delayed. The Model X, and S are also stale. Competition offers fresh models with more better build quality and design. Tesla seems to be falling behind.

There's nothing stale about sitting in a Tesla. For most other EVs, it still feels like you're sitting in a car. The main reason I'd consider something other than a Tesla today: - What's the maximum range - How much range do you get for the price - What's the total cost (there are cheaper cars that look great) As far as I'm concerned, nothing is outright beating Tesla on design. It's hard to beat simplicity. Also, si…

Teslas are very stale inside. The "tablet as 99% of the interface" is horrible and should be left in the 20teens. Physical buttons for the most important interactions with the car are in all ways better. I understand why they do this, they are going all in on autonomous driving, so sure. I recently purchased an EV and when I sat in the Tesla, I hated it. I don't want to play the iPad driving game.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#62

Post by ptero »

Retric wrote: post #50
mike_hearn wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The survey also found that 87% of Model 3 owners are considering a Tesla for their next vehicles. That means it’s a fairly small percentage of people who are actually walking away from Tesla overall, and only about one in five of those people are doing it because of Musk

People considering buying a Tesla isn’t the same as people actually buying a Tesla. 13% of owners found the experience so bad they are completely unwilling to consider the brand. People who dislike the cars or company but want a sub 45k EV with ~300 miles of range still don’t have a lot of options. Thus most current owners would at least consider buying another Tesla.

Why do you think those 13% found the experience very bad? They might have moved to an area where there are no superchargers, they may want to try something different (which people do, even if they like what they have today), they might want a different body type (sport instead of the family), there may be many other reasons.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#63

Post by ryathal »

etrautmann wrote: post #55
akmarinov wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but someone who got a Model S in 2018 and upgraded to a Model S in 2022, is probably not going to buy the same looking car in 2025

why would anyone need a new car every three years? I understand people want new stuff, but that's insanity.

Don't shame the people paying the deprecation on the cars I eventually buy for a far better price.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#64

Post by ripjaygn »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #40
Sakos wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the Cybertruck launched was already too late for them to have launched a "budget" Tesla, and a budget Tesla is what they really needed to cement their lead in the EV industry. Now there are a bunch of decent competitors in Tesla's market segments and China is eating (or will eat) everybody's lunch in cheaper segments (except for the US, I guess, with the 100% import tax). I have no idea what they're doing. It lo…

> When the Cybertruck launched was already too late for them to have launched a "budget" Tesla Sure. When the Cybertruck started diverting resources it wasn’t. > they're all in on robotaxis? Current market leader is Mercedes with an SAE Level 3 vehicle [1]. (Tesla markets like it’s Level 5, but it’s technically Level 2, same as my Subaru.) Waymo is Level 4 [2]. They appear to be at their field’s forefront. If Tesla c…

> Current market leader is Mercedes with an SAE Level 3 vehicle

That's not a market leader when it just follows the car in front and has significant limitations.

Cannot even change lanes

Works only in traffic jams and heavy traffic

Works only under 40MPH

Works only on specific highways (which need to be mapped?)

Works only in daylight, does not work at night

Does not work in rain

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#65

Post by gmoore »

consumer451 wrote: post #2

> Sales data from April, collected by Automotive News, shows growth in the EV market outpacing that of vehicles as a whole. Electric sales were up 14 percent as a whole, which is a promising number. Yet, when you take Tesla out of the equation, those numbers skyrocket: Non-Tesla EV sales grew a full 69 percent over the same period.

They are losing share - never a good thing

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#66

Post by gmoore »

I don't think this just about 'the competition getting wiser' or 'the market for EV's getting bigger'. People aren't buying Tesla because of Musk. Maybe not every missed sale is for that reason - but if you think for one minute that his behavior and his positions doesn't affect car sales - you're simply mistaken.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#67

Post by sergiosgc »

akmarinov wrote: post #54
sergiosgc wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean restyling? It's a feature of classic automakers that I actually don't like. It seems aimed at forcing consumers to get a new vehicle by making the old one seem deprecated. It's mimicking the fashion industry, where fashion shouldn't matter. If you mean vehicle development, Tesla does that, continuously. A 2022 model 3 is a different car from a 2018 model 3, as much as a 2024 highland is. You don't need to to…

Yeah but someone who got a Model S in 2018 and upgraded to a Model S in 2022, is probably not going to buy the same looking car in 2025

Step back a bit and ask yourself: Why not? If it's a great car, and if it has been technologically updated, should you really care that much about a new front grill design?

We consider cars more fashionable than shoes.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#68

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ripjaygn wrote: post #64
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When the Cybertruck launched was already too late for them to have launched a "budget" Tesla Sure. When the Cybertruck started diverting resources it wasn’t. > they're all in on robotaxis? Current market leader is Mercedes with an SAE Level 3 vehicle [1]. (Tesla markets like it’s Level 5, but it’s technically Level 2, same as my Subaru.) Waymo is Level 4 [2]. They appear to be at their field’s forefront. If Tesla c…

> Current market leader is Mercedes with an SAE Level 3 vehicle That's not a market leader when it just follows the car in front and has significant limitations. Cannot even change lanes Works only in traffic jams and heavy traffic Works only under 40MPH Works only on specific highways (which need to be mapped?) Works only in daylight, does not work at night Does not work in rain

Is the only Level 3 vehicle on the roads in Germany and now California and Nevada. Until Tesla steps up and says you don’t have to pay attention, that the car can drive itself and if it fucks up it’s on Tesla, it’s Level 2. Not in the lead.

> it just follows the car in front

No, that’s active lane keeping. My Subaru does that.

> Cannot even change lanes

Yes it does [1].

> Works only under 40MPH

If you want to exceed this, you can switch to its Level 2 mode.

FSD is a very advanced Level 2 system. (Probably the most advanced.) But it’s still Level 2 because you are still supposed to closely supervise it.

[1] https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/what-is-mercede...

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#69

Post by sergiosgc »

cmgxyz wrote: post #29
xkbarkar wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I´d also wager that some of the competition has finally gotten they sh!t together. Tried the new WV ev Passad and the latest Skoda Enyaq. Both have great battery range and when it comes to comfort are much better than the stiff bumby Tesla. Tesla had momentum and they used it to the max. Now the competition has gotten wizer. I do not subscribe to the interwebs anti-Musk rhetoric, most people do not care if he eats ba…

As somebody potentially in the market for an EV, I can say that for me, Musk is most definitely a factor. Not the only factor, to be sure, but the off-putting icing on an otherwise average cake. If Tesla were the only decent EV in town, I might hold my nose through Musk’s behaviour and buy one. They aren’t, though, so I don’t have to. The other major factors in my decision are the very public QA issues, safety issues…

Maybe because VW, for example, has actually skirted pollution laws, with intent. Or because PSA management publicly derides any effort for EV transition. Or maybe because Toyota has for 20 years falsely promised EV fuel cells/engines in the next five years, all the while happily selling ICE vehicles.

If you look closely at any big corporation management, they are all egomaniacs. Just not childish enough to publicize that fact.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#70

Post by EA-3167 »

gmoore wrote: post #66

I don't think this just about 'the competition getting wiser' or 'the market for EV's getting bigger'. People aren't buying Tesla because of Musk. Maybe not every missed sale is for that reason - but if you think for one minute that his behavior and his positions doesn't affect car sales - you're simply mistaken.

I think the Cybertruck and QC issues that have become weekly issues in the media can't be helping either. It's a big, ugly, expensive piece of crap and that has to leave some people wondering about the stories of panel gaps and other issues in other Tesla models. Add Musk to that, and the existence of alternatives and I'm not shocked that the Tesla bubble is deflating.
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