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EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

jalopnik.com

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Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#41

Post by mike_hearn »

consumer451 wrote: post #5
Rinzler89 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe Tesla's market/customer base has just saturated.

As a relatively early investor, I have been watching Tesla subs for a long time. Even though I sold 2 years ago I still pay attention. While certainly not the only factor, public opinion on Musk is a significant factor it appears: https://electrek.co/2023/07/27/disapproval-elon-musk-top-rea... https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Areddit.com+won%27t+bu...

> The survey also found that 87% of Model 3 owners are considering a Tesla for their next vehicles. That means it’s a fairly small percentage of people who are actually walking away from Tesla overall, and only about one in five of those people are doing it because of Musk

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#42

Post by seethecope »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #21
mc32 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess… But it was approved a while ago, except for some reason Delaware went against precedent and disallowed it so they moved to Texas where it was re-approved.

> Delaware went against precedent and disallowed it Board competence is super precedented. Normally the courts defer to business judgement to an obnoxious degree, but if the Board isn’t independent it can no longer be assured to be serving its fiduciary duty. (To investors majority and minority.)

[flagged]

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#43

Post by sergiosgc »

cebert wrote: post #9

I am in the market for a new vehicle and am strongly considering purchasing an EV. Tesla’s lineup seems stale to me. The Model 3 is relatively modern. However, the Model Y is due for a refresh but project Juniper has been delayed. The Model X, and S are also stale. Competition offers fresh models with more better build quality and design. Tesla seems to be falling behind.

You mean restyling? It's a feature of classic automakers that I actually don't like. It seems aimed at forcing consumers to get a new vehicle by making the old one seem deprecated. It's mimicking the fashion industry, where fashion shouldn't matter.

If you mean vehicle development, Tesla does that, continuously. A 2022 model 3 is a different car from a 2018 model 3, as much as a 2024 highland is. You don't need to touch the exterior to improve the car.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#44

Post by me_me_me »

aurareturn wrote: post #20
cebert wrote: post #9

I am in the market for a new vehicle and am strongly considering purchasing an EV. Tesla’s lineup seems stale to me. The Model 3 is relatively modern. However, the Model Y is due for a refresh but project Juniper has been delayed. The Model X, and S are also stale. Competition offers fresh models with more better build quality and design. Tesla seems to be falling behind.

It’s not clear if Tesla is focused on new models anymore. Seems like they think that the only way to justify their stock valuation is if they improve FSD.

at this stage FSD is a meme. "We are confident FSD will be available next year and its impact will be profound" repeated year after year for a DECADE now.

Its not happening anytime soon, especially if tesla want to rely solely on visuals inputs without lidar.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#45

Post by Rinzler89 »

cmgxyz wrote: post #31
Rinzler89 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving the blame on right wingers feels incredibly wrong. Reminds me how certain movie directors blame the right wingers for their movie flopping, when the real reason is their movie just sucks mega balls period. Just own your failures and stop looking for right wing straw men everywhere as scapegoats. Money talks in the free market and consumers vote with their wallets so if you make products that are top quality an…

I’ll bite. Who are we talking about here?

[flagged]

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#46

Post by cbeach »

cebert wrote: post #9

I am in the market for a new vehicle and am strongly considering purchasing an EV. Tesla’s lineup seems stale to me. The Model 3 is relatively modern. However, the Model Y is due for a refresh but project Juniper has been delayed. The Model X, and S are also stale. Competition offers fresh models with more better build quality and design. Tesla seems to be falling behind.

What’s “stale” about the S/X, which were refreshed relatively recently, and which are still untouchable in terms of performance? The interior is wholly different from the original Model S/X and the exterior still looks great, all these years after the original release.

Why must a manufacturer change a great design just to satisfy the subset of customers who have an irrational need for annual novelty?

Surely the sales figures for the 3 and Y speak for themselves.

Tesla is not stagnating. It continues to dominate.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#47

Post by JumpCrisscross »

kjksf wrote: post #35
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Delaware went against precedent and disallowed it Board competence is super precedented. Normally the courts defer to business judgement to an obnoxious degree, but if the Board isn’t independent it can no longer be assured to be serving its fiduciary duty. (To investors majority and minority.)

The ruling was mostly not about board's competence but based on judge's opinion that during original vote the shareholders weren't properly informed about things. Given that re-approval happened at similar levels of shareholders support, that judgement seems incorrect. And yes, it is unprecedented as in "there's no similar ruling in Delaware history". And I stress "similar", not the "board competence" idea you made u…

> ruling was mostly not about board's competence but based on judge's opinion that during original vote the shareholders weren't properly informed about things

That second bit of analysis never kicks in if Musk isn’t a “controlling shareholder.” Put another way, the ruling wouldn’t have been legal if the Board were deemed competent.

The Court found “Musk was the paradigmatic ‘Superstar CEO,’ who held some of the most influential corporate positions (CEO, Chair, and founder), enjoyed thick ties with the directors tasked with negotiating on behalf of Tesla, and dominated the process that led to board approval of his compensation plan,” thereby concluding “Musk controlled Tesla” [1].

This means the Court no longer defers to the company, but must decide if “the compensation plan was entirely fair.”

> it is unprecedented as in "there's no similar ruling in Delaware history"

What are you quoting?

In any case, you’re correct: the entire fairness doctrine has only needed to be applied by Delaware thrice before, in the 1980s [2] and then 2022 [3]. The novelty remains in Tesla’s closely-construed Board.

[1] https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2024/02/01/tesla-musk-case-p...

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weinberger_v._UOP,_Inc.

[3] https://www.huschblackwell.com/newsandinsights/entire-fairne...

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#48

Post by ptero »

If you look carefully, the numbers are not nearly as convincing. The article (the real one, from Automotive, from which the numbers are quoted) is behind the paywall, but even the visible portion indicates that the pickup in sales is in response to major factory rebates, often in excess of $10k.

This might be not be a pickup in interest in EVs, but a factory fire sale as they adjust to demand shifts. My 2c.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#49

Post by josefx »

kjksf wrote: post #35
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Delaware went against precedent and disallowed it Board competence is super precedented. Normally the courts defer to business judgement to an obnoxious degree, but if the Board isn’t independent it can no longer be assured to be serving its fiduciary duty. (To investors majority and minority.)

The ruling was mostly not about board's competence but based on judge's opinion that during original vote the shareholders weren't properly informed about things. Given that re-approval happened at similar levels of shareholders support, that judgement seems incorrect. And yes, it is unprecedented as in "there's no similar ruling in Delaware history". And I stress "similar", not the "board competence" idea you made u…

> The ruling was mostly not about board's competence

Because showing that was so trivial that it barely needed to be done. People working directly for Musk asserted they had no financial ties to him or any of his companies. The board fucked up within the first few lines of legal boilerplate of the agreement.

The remainder was trying to find out if anything within the agreement wasn't tainted by the boards fuckery.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#50

Post by Retric »

mike_hearn wrote: post #41
consumer451 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a relatively early investor, I have been watching Tesla subs for a long time. Even though I sold 2 years ago I still pay attention. While certainly not the only factor, public opinion on Musk is a significant factor it appears: https://electrek.co/2023/07/27/disapproval-elon-musk-top-rea... https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Areddit.com+won%27t+bu...

> The survey also found that 87% of Model 3 owners are considering a Tesla for their next vehicles. That means it’s a fairly small percentage of people who are actually walking away from Tesla overall, and only about one in five of those people are doing it because of Musk

People considering buying a Tesla isn’t the same as people actually buying a Tesla.

13% of owners found the experience so bad they are completely unwilling to consider the brand. People who dislike the cars or company but want a sub 45k EV with ~300 miles of range still don’t have a lot of options. Thus most current owners would at least consider buying another Tesla.

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