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Ladybird browser spreads its wings

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281–290 of 319 posts

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You want to support YouTube, don't you? Of course no. You can use a bloated browser for that.

Then nobody will ever use your browser. Simple as that.

I think people forget the early 2000s. Many sites only worked on IE but Firefox was the better browser. Firefox users had an extension that would open certain links in IE or open the current page in IE via the context menu.

If a lightweight browser could be significantly faster and more secure, people would tolerate using two browsers again. Although Ladybird hasn't reached that bar.

YouTube certainly could use a small set of web standards, although YT regularly breaks on Firefox. It's a video player with links and forms.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If enough people use different browsers then we'll get effective and slower standards once again. I think the only way to get people on other browsers is to legally require ballots on first use of an OS/device with random order. It worked in the EU, it can work in the US too.

It's great that we're faced with an explicit choice here in the EU, but I don't think it really done much in terms of affecting Chrome's entrenched market share. Most people use whatever tools they're already familiar with. Almost everyone I know uses Chrome, including the majority of my tech circle. I think people are only going to switch once the Firefox user experience is noticeably better for the average person.…

Firefox doesn't control major web properties from which it can nag users to switch. Chrome (and similar chokepoint-holders like Safari) won't be unseated by market forces for years, maybe decades. We are on the road to technology feudalism as the web and browsers eat the world.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#283

Andreas Kling is a great role model in the world of development I feel. The decision to step away from the Serenity OS makes a lot of sense. There are plenty of them, nice projects to do, but they'll never have an immediate impact if any at all. But the browser space, Ladybird is viable as a daily driver for people. I'm still today astounded the work that has been produced just on this. > Somewhat ironically, it was…

I don't think casual observers understand how many new CSS features have been added to the web platform over the last few years. 468 new features have been added since 2018; 148 have been added in the past 18 months alone [1]. I applaud the effort but unless something fundamentally changes in their approach, I don't see how they can catch up. Sure, you don't need every single spec, but even the core ones like Flexbox…

all of them were written in a way that mostly affect the api, not the underlying implementation models tho.

it's still 500 new things to test and actually implement. but not as bad as the original 1 to 2 change.

html5 was the forever missed opportunity to do things right. but keeping the browser-side effort low was always fought for on the w3 committe.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#284

Although I dont like quite a few Firefox decisions. Like the floating tabs which no easy way to revert. I still think Firefox as a browser is fairly decent. And I also think that ladybird is going to have all the problems that Opera Presto had (and now Firefox has) which is going to be ignored by any small developers, and targeted to generate errors by the big companies (google/microsoft...) I definitely would have p…

let's all take a moment to appreciate how google managed to get the web to the state it was in 1996, when you had to develop for one browser and then go fix things in another.

/slow clap

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you perhaps mean to argue you think it helped other browsers lose users slower than they otherwise might have? From your link: > Competing browsers saw their traffic increase,[16] suggesting that these smaller competing developers were gaining users. However, long-term trends show browsers such as Opera and Firefox losing market share in Europe, calling into question the usefulness of the browser choice screen.[1]…

On the whole it did only slow the tide. Yet it wasn't enough alone, limited to one OS, in one market, for only ~4 years, at a time when Google was pushing its own from some of the world's most popular services. Still, every victory is worth celebrating. Moping every time a (modestly successful) approach is brought up isn't going to move the needle. Dominant browsers rely on many tricks to gain and hold their position…

I appreciate you consider it key but that several others are disagreeing whether something was successful is not them simply moping it was successful but not enough :). Keep in mind this all started out with this being the only way to get people on other browsers like how it had already worked in the EU so that's going to have steered more disagreement in the conversation than you might expect.

I think the browser ballot style thing may have hurt more than it helped in the long run. E.g. users clicking things they don't understand during the initial setup of their computer (while a whole lot of other things they don't really deal with often are going on too) may have actually resulted in some extra short term download hits that immediately scared those users away from spending time trying other browsers out once they realize what their selection meant in terms of change. How many users that clicked on Maxthon and were confused/disappointed with a (then) Trident based browser that wasn't quite IE? Hard to say but the data isn't jumping out to show the opposite.

I agree it would take more than one approach to restore the balance but I disagree that means all approaches are inherently helpful to roll out, let alone inherently key. The ballot initiative didn't result in any measurable change, even against the tide when compared to other regions, and simultaneously focuses both people and discussion away from major issues like the tricks dominant players actually use to gain market share. E.g. Microsoft had IE (and later Edge) bundled as the default choice after the ballot and share continued to decline up until they used these other working tactics which have resulted in it becoming the 2nd most used desktop browser again.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#286
post #37
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what is wrong with Firefox. It is open-source, highly configurable and reasonably secure (if you have the time to configure). Yes, it has shortcomings, but what doesn't.

Not every open source software has spyware and ads activated by default, while marketing itself as privacy friendly. Yes, can all be deactivated, I also use FF, but I do not trust Mozilla anymore.

> Yes, can all be deactivated, I also use FF, but I do not trust Mozilla anymore.

And so I feel much more at home with Microsoft Edge and Google Chrome.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has been 30/40 years of internet, and no legal battle has manage to get anything on that regard. I would even say, topics on the internet with a lot of lobbying, such as pirating software/media, in the same timeframe, has managed to get absolutely nothing done. I am afraid, it would not be possible to regulate legally.

Yet regulations have happened and continue to, just different ones of varying ... quality/purpose. Even among preservation/piracy there have been moderately successful efforts. Apathy will not bring change. Only speech and action.

The only thing that resulted in a decline in piracy was an increase in convenience, simplicity, and speed brought by on demand services (cloud game downloads and subscription passes, streaming video and music services, ebook/software subscriptions through app stores). The many billions spent per year in lobbying for deep seated laws like DMCA or equivalents never brought any meaningful change to the problem because the root of the issue was not solved by more restrictions.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#288
post #249

Andreas Kling is a great role model in the world of development I feel. The decision to step away from the Serenity OS makes a lot of sense. There are plenty of them, nice projects to do, but they'll never have an immediate impact if any at all. But the browser space, Ladybird is viable as a daily driver for people. I'm still today astounded the work that has been produced just on this. > Somewhat ironically, it was…

> But the browser space, Ladybird is viable as a daily driver for people. From the LWM article: > Users will need GCC 13+ or Clang 17, and Qt6 development packages to play along at home. Ladybird compiles and runs on, for example, Fedora 40 without a problem, *but it is a long way from being suitable for regular use.* Seems distributed binaries are missing, but that's easy to "fix"/"workaround". Is there something el…

> Seems distributed binaries are missing,

Even with SerenityOS they long were of the mindset that binaries/ISO/etc. should not be produced and distributed by them apparently.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#289

Andreas Kling is a great role model in the world of development I feel. The decision to step away from the Serenity OS makes a lot of sense. There are plenty of them, nice projects to do, but they'll never have an immediate impact if any at all. But the browser space, Ladybird is viable as a daily driver for people. I'm still today astounded the work that has been produced just on this. > Somewhat ironically, it was…

I wish rust people spent their time writing software instead of going around telling other people to do the job for them. They only manage to get others annoyed with this attitude.

Truer words have not been spoken.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is convining anyone to write a website in this. You will have like 3 sites that use only the subset. The closest example is AMP, but you must be Google to force people to use it.

A surprising number of websites work fine without js.

Basically none of the ones I use look or work normal without it.
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