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Salt, We Misjudged You

nytimes.com

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Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#131

Post by conradfr »

jswinghammer wrote: post #7

As someone who has lost around 40 pounds of fat switching to the high fat paleo diet I'm not at all surprised that the current state of the conventional wisdom on food is wrong in any number of ways. It is funny that we really have no idea what we should be eating naturally at all. Grains were making me sick and I didn't notice for years. It wasn't until I read a book listing side effects of grain consumption that I…

While researching a bit about the interaction between ADHD and food, I stumbled on articles about that kind of diet.

My (real) question is : what do you eat and how do you keep pleasure in eating ? From breakfeast to super, how can you even avoid bread (and cheese), the best thing on Earth ? It seems so impossible to me.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#132

Post by thenomad »

3pt14159 wrote: post #50
streptomycin wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> salt and MSG should be used to increase the tastiness of otherwise bland foods, like asparagus False. Asparagus (like many vegetables) should be roasted with garlic in a little bit of oil.

Heh. I never boil 'em, always grilled on the Barby or roasted in the oven and garlic is delicious.

Asparagus is wonderful for many reasons, but one of them is the range of textures and tastes different cooking methods can impart.

Grilling kicks off charring on the outer skin (not Maillard reactions to my knowledge - no amino acids - but something similar), and gives a wonderful gradient of textures between the skin and the soft, liquid core.

Microwaving (yes, really - NYT had an article about microwaving vegetables a couple of years ago, pointing out it's an excellent way to cook most veg) gives crisp, even spears with no toughness but plenty of crunch and a superb retention of pure flavour.

Frying with garlic is probably the best way to introduce other flavours that will complement the main spear, IMO, and also leans toward the softer texture of grilling.

Boiling has its place too - I avoided it for many years before becoming curious as to why blanching is still used in most top-end restaurants. It's very fast, it produces a softer spear than steam or microwave, if you time a cold water bath right it'll give you a brilliantly green stalk, and it gives nearly as clear a taste as microwaving. Plus, it's a good way to introduce the tiniest bit of salt - which acts as a flavour enhancer.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#133

Post by thenomad »

fein wrote: post #54
Cushman wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's the idea behind the "All Natural AC'CENT® Flavor Enhancer" branding-- they don't say "monosodium glutamate" anywhere on the package except the ingredients. I just call it supersalt . Because it's like salt, but not salty!

Technically, MSG is supposed to be the "extra" taste area they didn't know about/ teach in school. So although it seems salty, it's actually the savory flavor. MSG is found in just about every single food you eat that has that "savory" flavor.

To the best of my knowledge, MSG isn't actually found in most sources of umami, but it's an excellent source of that flavour.

Well-known umami-tasting foods include red meat, cheese and other fermented products, and tomatoes. None of these contain MSG directly (tomatoes get their umami from glutamic acid, according to umamiinfo.com). However, MSG can be used to add more umami flavour, which acts as a flavour enhancer.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#134

Post by oneandoneis2 »

arn wrote: post #45
crazygringo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He points out that the DASH study didn't conclude anything about death or cardiovascular disease. Yes, that's true. So sure, there's a chance that despite blood pressure reductions a low salt diet could cause problems. But it's not the obvious conclusion. That's the whole point, you say it yourself. The idea that "salt is bad" has just as shaky underpinnings as "lower blood pressure is good". The only thing we care…

> The idea that "salt is bad" has just as shaky underpinnings as "lower blood pressure is good". Wait, "lower blood pressure is good" has shaky underpinnings? Is there a debate on that? I don't think there's a debate that high blood pressure results in worse (death/disease) outcomes.

You know, when I go out for a run in the mornings, it raises my blood pressure.

Should I give up exercise to become more healthy? :)

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#135

Post by bad_user »

conradfr wrote: post #131
jswinghammer wrote: post #7

As someone who has lost around 40 pounds of fat switching to the high fat paleo diet I'm not at all surprised that the current state of the conventional wisdom on food is wrong in any number of ways. It is funny that we really have no idea what we should be eating naturally at all. Grains were making me sick and I didn't notice for years. It wasn't until I read a book listing side effects of grain consumption that I…

While researching a bit about the interaction between ADHD and food, I stumbled on articles about that kind of diet. My (real) question is : what do you eat and how do you keep pleasure in eating ? From breakfeast to super, how can you even avoid bread (and cheese), the best thing on Earth ? It seems so impossible to me.

I am not on a paleo diet. Instead I'm on a dissociated diet and I lost 42 pounds since February.

I do not avoid diary products. I do avoid bread, but when I do eat bread, I prefer bread that's made of whole grains. And so I'm making my own bread. In general I follow these 2 rules:

(1) I stopped eating refined carbohydrates or preprocessed crap (entirely, no exceptions ... all the sugar I want comes from fruits)

(2) I never combine food rich in carbohydrates with meat or diary (I eat potatoes for instance, but without meat)

As to your question on how can you give up bread: refined carbohydrates give you a dependence, just like nicotine. The more you consume, the more you crave for more. When you stop eating bread daily, you simply will stop carrying about bread.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#136

Post by Cushman »

MartinCron wrote: post #62
Cushman wrote: post #20

All right! Next up: MSG. Even those of my friends who know that the health concerns are bogus have a weird paranoia of MSG. I think it's a general suspicion of any chemical which makes food taste better (which somehow doesn't apply to salt and sugar).

One way to look at MSG (the way I look at it) is that it has been shown to stimulate the appetite. As a result of this, people often eat MSG-infused food more than they should. My wife once said that MSG "makes me think this tastes better than it really does". So, MSG may or may not be bad by itself, but the highly processed empty calories that it hangs out with, definitely bad. Bet you can't eat just one? I don't ta…

I think that's exactly what I mean by "paranoia". It's certainly true that MSG makes food taste better than it "really does", and makes you want to eat more-- as do added salt, sugar, or any seasoning for that matter.

For some reason only in MSG does this quality inspire distrust.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#137

Post by bad_user »

drostie wrote: post #70
mkoivuni wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, nutritional "science" and conventional wisdom has become a joke.

I just wish we could see more directly a sense of how little we know about good nutrition. My favorite example is Vitamin B12, mostly because I learned the story when I reduced my meat consumption to about once a month. So there's this family of massive molecules containing the metal cobalt which we can't make on our own because we're not adapted to eat cobalt, and they're all called "Vitamin B12". It helps in the la…

I think that when it comes to diet, you should follow your instinct on how much to consume and listen to your body, while also doing blood analyzes from time to time.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#138

Post by bad_user »

psykotic wrote: post #73
iand wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Low-carber thesis is that raising intake of fats suppresses appetite so you can eat what you like until you are full. The idea is carbs keep you hungry because of energy partiioning and so you over consume calories because you feel hungrier than you should. Taubes explains this very well in What Makes us Fat. His main claim is that the energy balance problem is a consequence of getting fat, not the cause.

You don't mention insulin by name, but that's what underlies Taubes's thesis about the link being carbs and obesity. James Krieger dispels much of that argument here: http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319 > Low-carber thesis is that raising intake of fats suppresses appetite so you can eat what you like until you are full. Eating pounds of fruits and vegetables won't you make you full? Or rice and pot…

     Eating pounds of fruits and vegetables won't
     you make you full?
I'm on a dissociated diet and I can offer some anecdotal insight here.

In some days I eat meat and diary. In other days I eat fruits and vegetables only. I also have days where I allow myself to eat whole-grain bread or pasta. The only days in which I don't feel hunger are the days when I eat meat. If I eat for instance pasta, or potatoes, or rice, in 2 hours tops I get hungry again. Of course, if I eat beans or spinach ... these vegetables keep me full longer than rice, but I still get hungry.

So the issue here is that meat and diary get digested slower. Beans and spinach also get digested slower than bread or pasta or refined carbohydrates, while having better nutritional value (because of the extra fiber).

It's really not about the quantity.

Btw, I also eat high-fat pork meat as I really enjoy it. I have no problems with cholesterol or other issues. I think the secret to a healthy life is having a diverse diet + abstaining from preprocessed crap.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#139

Post by conradfr »

bad_user wrote: post #135
conradfr wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While researching a bit about the interaction between ADHD and food, I stumbled on articles about that kind of diet. My (real) question is : what do you eat and how do you keep pleasure in eating ? From breakfeast to super, how can you even avoid bread (and cheese), the best thing on Earth ? It seems so impossible to me.

I am not on a paleo diet. Instead I'm on a dissociated diet and I lost 42 pounds since February. I do not avoid diary products. I do avoid bread, but when I do eat bread, I prefer bread that's made of whole grains. And so I'm making my own bread. In general I follow these 2 rules: (1) I stopped eating refined carbohydrates or preprocessed crap (entirely, no exceptions ... all the sugar I want comes from fruits) (2) I…

I guess I could make some lengthy tests. But I'm French and you know ... baguette (which, to stay on topic, contains lots of salt).

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#140

Post by jswinghammer »

conradfr wrote: post #131
jswinghammer wrote: post #7

As someone who has lost around 40 pounds of fat switching to the high fat paleo diet I'm not at all surprised that the current state of the conventional wisdom on food is wrong in any number of ways. It is funny that we really have no idea what we should be eating naturally at all. Grains were making me sick and I didn't notice for years. It wasn't until I read a book listing side effects of grain consumption that I…

While researching a bit about the interaction between ADHD and food, I stumbled on articles about that kind of diet. My (real) question is : what do you eat and how do you keep pleasure in eating ? From breakfeast to super, how can you even avoid bread (and cheese), the best thing on Earth ? It seems so impossible to me.

I find things that work for every meal and try new recipes. Bread tastes great but I avoid it because if I eat it then I will pay a heavy price. Try the primal blueprint for 60 days and see what happens. I noticed a huge change in 24 hours but my results are not typical.
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