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Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

haaretz.com

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Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#31

Post by ajross »

nyellin wrote: post #27

Please do not make broad statements about Israel based on one article. Israel allows civil unions, allows homosexuals to serve in the military without restrictions, supports Muslim private schools, pays for Islamic religious activities, and generally respects human rights. [1] We also have our warts, like everyone country does. Israeli politicians have attempted to pass our own Protecting Children from Internet Porno…

> Please do not make broad statements about Israel based on one article.

Have any been made? The discussion here, at least, seems very civil and focused on the issue at hand. Israel is indeed a very laudable nation and people in many ways.

But this behavior is awful, and has to be condemned.

Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#32

Post by mayanksinghal »

SODaniel wrote: post #28
davidf18 wrote: post #14

I'm an American who has been to Israel countless times and unless you've been there you can't imagine the security situation. At the last moment I was saved from a terrorist attack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_BMW_attack when I went into a corner store to buy a candy bar hearing gunshots with girls running into the store before I could make my purchase. I have eaten at several locations that were later bomb…

Still no justification to require overly invasive security measures such as requiring access to personal communication etc. Also completely useless for anything than purely 'selecting' who you let in since I am going to assume a terrorist wouldn't exactly use terrorist185@hotmail.com and then hand the email over when asked.

Exactly and Israel is not the only country that faces terrorism. India does as well, and as an Indian - I would out-rightly reject any such measures.

Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#33

Post by tnash »

_pius wrote: post #26
tnash wrote: post #2

Before any kind of Israel bashing starts, I want to say that unless you have lived under constant threat to your life like nearly all Israelis have during some point of their life, you cannot really grasp the lengths you will go to to preserve your life and the lives of your family. Nonetheless, this does seem a little overboard. From having personally been grilled by Israeli airport security, I can say that they are…

Before any kind of Israel bashing starts, I want to say that unless you have lived under constant threat to your life like nearly all Israelis have during some point of their life, you cannot really grasp the lengths you will go to to preserve your life and the lives of your family. This is a really poor frame. People who disagree with this practice are not "Israel bashing," they're disagreeing with this policy. It's…

Well, you know, it's just, I've been on the internet. People tend to take things to extremes. Tech people tend to be liberal, and most liberals in the US have an anti-Israeli view. I prefer not to divulge my political leanings (but just because I agree with someone else on one point does not mean I agree with them on any other) but I know a very great deal about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict and its implications. I want to educate, and I don't want to see mindless bashing of Israel like I see on pretty much every tech forum where the topic comes up.

Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#34

Post by ajross »

tnash wrote: post #19
potatolicious wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "you cannot really grasp the lengths you will go to to preserve your life and the lives of your family" This justifies things... how? Not to mention that imminent danger has been the mother of a huge number of evils in our time, and since time immemorial.

So you're saying if someone were pointing a gun at your family, and you also had a gun pointed at them, you would refuse to use it out of a belief that you occupy some moral high ground?

That seems like a digression. The tourists in question were presumably unarmed, both literally and figuratively. Yet they had the metaphorical gun pointed at them anyway.

I'm guessing that an implied part of your point is that because they had arab names, they might have had metaphorical guns? Yeah. That's the part that drew the downvotes.

Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#35

Post by planetguy »

SODaniel wrote: post #28
davidf18 wrote: post #14

I'm an American who has been to Israel countless times and unless you've been there you can't imagine the security situation. At the last moment I was saved from a terrorist attack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_BMW_attack when I went into a corner store to buy a candy bar hearing gunshots with girls running into the store before I could make my purchase. I have eaten at several locations that were later bomb…

Still no justification to require overly invasive security measures such as requiring access to personal communication etc. Also completely useless for anything than purely 'selecting' who you let in since I am going to assume a terrorist wouldn't exactly use terrorist185@hotmail.com and then hand the email over when asked.

> Still no justification to require overly invasive security measures such as requiring access to personal communication etc

Israel is full of overly invasive security measures. The alternative is probably just to bar access to the country altogether, or at least bar it to people of certain backgrounds.

Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#36

Post by nyellin »

ajross wrote: post #31
nyellin wrote: post #27

Please do not make broad statements about Israel based on one article. Israel allows civil unions, allows homosexuals to serve in the military without restrictions, supports Muslim private schools, pays for Islamic religious activities, and generally respects human rights. [1] We also have our warts, like everyone country does. Israeli politicians have attempted to pass our own Protecting Children from Internet Porno…

> Please do not make broad statements about Israel based on one article. Have any been made? The discussion here, at least, seems very civil and focused on the issue at hand. Israel is indeed a very laudable nation and people in many ways. But this behavior is awful, and has to be condemned.

Then let me clarify: I condemn this as well. It has to stop.

There have been comments below calling for America to stop supporting Israeli. I want to point out how exceptionally uncommon this type of behavior is.

Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#37

Post by tnash »

potatolicious wrote: post #23
tnash wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying if someone were pointing a gun at your family, and you also had a gun pointed at them, you would refuse to use it out of a belief that you occupy some moral high ground?

I see that "non sequitor straw man analogy" is the special on the menu today. So, to be clear, I'm not saying anything about guns pointed my families. I'm talking about people's natural right to privacy and the overreach of government. These two things have nothing to do with each other and your attempt to connect them is both misleading and disingenuous.

Well, since you weren't clear, and still aren't, straw man it was. Your point is what? That privacy is sacrosanct? That we should live in a world where libertarianism rules all? What is your point? Stop me anytime.

We're talking about the same thing here. Security abuses privacy, but is necessary. My point was, and still is, that for some it is more necessary than others. As we in the US and Western Europe don't live under constant threat to our lives, we accept less. However, Israelis do live under that threat, so they accept more.

Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#38

Post by makomk »

nyellin wrote: post #27

Please do not make broad statements about Israel based on one article. Israel allows civil unions, allows homosexuals to serve in the military without restrictions, supports Muslim private schools, pays for Islamic religious activities, and generally respects human rights. [1] We also have our warts, like everyone country does. Israeli politicians have attempted to pass our own Protecting Children from Internet Porno…

What nyellin means by "Israel allows civil unions" is that, starting in 2011, they actually allow a man and a woman who aren't religious and who can prove this to the satisfaction of the religious authorities to get married. Prior to that it was actually impossible for many heterosexual Israeli citizens to get married within Israel because they were only considered Jewish by Israeli law and not by the Jewish religious authorities. As far as I can tell civil unions still don't extend to same-sex couples.

Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#39

Post by mrb »

antr wrote: post #7
pavel_lishin wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the penalty for disallowing access seems to be a refusal to allow you into the country. I imagine that giving access to a legitimate but old and useless e-mail address would be taken as a refusal, and you'd just get back on your plane and go home.

but then, how might they know that I have other personal accounts? Are they going to put on a lie detector and ask me if I have a gmail account?

I imagine it depends on the gut instinct of the agent checking you at the border. He does not have to be certain you are a liar. If he thinks you are lying, he may send you back home, even if you have no other mail account.

Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#40

Post by tnash »

ajross wrote: post #34
tnash wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying if someone were pointing a gun at your family, and you also had a gun pointed at them, you would refuse to use it out of a belief that you occupy some moral high ground?

That seems like a digression. The tourists in question were presumably unarmed, both literally and figuratively. Yet they had the metaphorical gun pointed at them anyway. I'm guessing that an implied part of your point is that because they had arab names, they might have had metaphorical guns? Yeah. That's the part that drew the downvotes.

I'm not sure asking for email credentials is a "metaphorical gun". 99% of the violence committed against Israelis is done by Arabs. You suggest that profiling is wrong (and it is! Don't we all wish we lived in a world where it wasn't necessary!), but it works. It's stopped countless terror attacks.
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