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Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

haaretz.com

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Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#21

Post by click170 »

tnash wrote: post #19
potatolicious wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "you cannot really grasp the lengths you will go to to preserve your life and the lives of your family" This justifies things... how? Not to mention that imminent danger has been the mother of a huge number of evils in our time, and since time immemorial.

So you're saying if someone were pointing a gun at your family, and you also had a gun pointed at them, you would refuse to use it out of a belief that you occupy some moral high ground?

Rarher, I think they were saying that it would be prudent to be skeptical and cautious of anyone attempting to impose draconian laws or practices under the thinly veiled guise of "the british are coming" -- er sorry, "the baddies are coming".

Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#22

Post by mxfh »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #12
alt_ wrote: post #9

No real content in the article for non-subscribers. Reddit comment[0] has (a) full story[1]. [0] http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/ulvaj/israel_airp... [1] http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/do-you-feel-more-arab-or-more-...

We may need a HN Guideline about paywalls

The paywall wasn't up when it was posted.

Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#23

Post by potatolicious »

tnash wrote: post #19
potatolicious wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "you cannot really grasp the lengths you will go to to preserve your life and the lives of your family" This justifies things... how? Not to mention that imminent danger has been the mother of a huge number of evils in our time, and since time immemorial.

So you're saying if someone were pointing a gun at your family, and you also had a gun pointed at them, you would refuse to use it out of a belief that you occupy some moral high ground?

I see that "non sequitor straw man analogy" is the special on the menu today.

So, to be clear, I'm not saying anything about guns pointed my families. I'm talking about people's natural right to privacy and the overreach of government. These two things have nothing to do with each other and your attempt to connect them is both misleading and disingenuous.

Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#24

Post by makomk »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #10
tnash wrote: post #2

Before any kind of Israel bashing starts, I want to say that unless you have lived under constant threat to your life like nearly all Israelis have during some point of their life, you cannot really grasp the lengths you will go to to preserve your life and the lives of your family. Nonetheless, this does seem a little overboard. From having personally been grilled by Israeli airport security, I can say that they are…

Unless you're a grossly incompetent terrorist, searching through your email isn't going to help you determine how much of a threat you are. Israel can continue what they're doing, but without any US policy or financial support if they continue to do so towards US citizens/legal residents.

It's not going to help them determine how much of a threat someone is in terms of killing people. It's a very good way of determining how much of a threat someone's likely to be in terms of drawing attentions to the less savoury aspects of Israel's treatment of its Arab population.

Edit: Good guess apparently. Look at the search keywords here: http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/do-you-feel-more-arab-or-more-...

Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#25

Post by potatolicious »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #10
tnash wrote: post #2

Before any kind of Israel bashing starts, I want to say that unless you have lived under constant threat to your life like nearly all Israelis have during some point of their life, you cannot really grasp the lengths you will go to to preserve your life and the lives of your family. Nonetheless, this does seem a little overboard. From having personally been grilled by Israeli airport security, I can say that they are…

Unless you're a grossly incompetent terrorist, searching through your email isn't going to help you determine how much of a threat you are. Israel can continue what they're doing, but without any US policy or financial support if they continue to do so towards US citizens/legal residents.

I don't support this sort of invasion of privacy, but FWIW most terrorists are grossly incompetent. We're not dealing with shadowy cabals of Dr. Evils, terrorists we've been able to apprehend have inevitably turned out to be strictly amateur.

What they lack in operational sophistication they make up in dedication and deadliness.

Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#26

Post by _pius »

tnash wrote: post #2

Before any kind of Israel bashing starts, I want to say that unless you have lived under constant threat to your life like nearly all Israelis have during some point of their life, you cannot really grasp the lengths you will go to to preserve your life and the lives of your family. Nonetheless, this does seem a little overboard. From having personally been grilled by Israeli airport security, I can say that they are…

Before any kind of Israel bashing starts, I want to say that unless you have lived under constant threat to your life like nearly all Israelis have during some point of their life, you cannot really grasp the lengths you will go to to preserve your life and the lives of your family.

This is a really poor frame. People who disagree with this practice are not "Israel bashing," they're disagreeing with this policy. It's inappropriate to preemptively insinuate that those who disagree about a civil liberties issue are anti-Semitic.

Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#27

Post by nyellin »

Please do not make broad statements about Israel based on one article.

Israel allows civil unions, allows homosexuals to serve in the military without restrictions, supports Muslim private schools, pays for Islamic religious activities, and generally respects human rights. [1]

We also have our warts, like everyone country does. Israeli politicians have attempted to pass our own Protecting Children from Internet Pornographers Act. We have our equivalents of the TSA, FBI, and CIA - and for us they are an existential necessity.

Keep in mind that many - probably most - Israelis will be equally disturbed by this. Israel's Supreme Court has an excellent track record of ruling against military and government action. Their decisions are binding - there is no one above the law in Israel. Prime ministers, presidents, and intelligence organizations alike have been prosecuted.

We're also only 60 years old, and have fought 7 major wars in that time, twice in such dire situations that it was widely believed we would fight to the last dead man and lose. Compare with other countries, or just MKULTRA, before you judge us so quickly.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Israel

Edit: This is almost a societal-version of the fundamental attribution error. When your country does something wrong, you blame it on the politician or individual. When you hear about the same thing happening in another country, you wonder why that country is so backwards and evil.

Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#28

Post by SODaniel »

davidf18 wrote: post #14

I'm an American who has been to Israel countless times and unless you've been there you can't imagine the security situation. At the last moment I was saved from a terrorist attack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_BMW_attack when I went into a corner store to buy a candy bar hearing gunshots with girls running into the store before I could make my purchase. I have eaten at several locations that were later bomb…

Still no justification to require overly invasive security measures such as requiring access to personal communication etc.

Also completely useless for anything than purely 'selecting' who you let in since I am going to assume a terrorist wouldn't exactly use terrorist185@hotmail.com and then hand the email over when asked.

Re: Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

#30

Post by pyre »

AJ007 wrote: post #18

This just sounds like an attempt to keep individuals of certain backgrounds out of a country. Ask a lot of invasive information and then refuse them entry. Entry information such as this should be aggregated in to travel warnings given about a particular country to minimize wasting a citizen time & money. Stories on how foreign countries treat privacy are important. American companies, in some part, have turned place…

   By the way, what country is known for harassing Americans at 
   their border: Canada. I'd rather travel to Mexico in the
   middle of a drug war.
I've had the opposite experience. As an American citizen, I've gotten a worse experience going Canada => US than vice-versa. I've personally only been harassed once by Canadian border patrol, and at one point I was crossing the border every day for work (note: This is without any sort of 'special' clearance like the Nexus Pass).

That said, I went to Tijuana once when there was apparently a 3-day riot at some high-security prison nearby and it took 4 hours in a 2-mile long line to get back across the border. I'd imagine that a drug war would be even worse.

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