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'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

theguardian.com

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Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#191

Post by macrolime »

Angostura wrote: post #172
tacticalturtle wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never see them in the US outside of city bike share programs, but I feel like most casual bike users would be better served by internal gear hubs and similar closed systems. The maintenance is minimal, outside of dropping some oil in every year. But for some reason, every bike in a bike shop, including the most casual upright bike, has a finicky derailleur. So instead we’re doomed to a life of misaligned derailleur…

I’ve been commuting weekdays on a bike with ‘finicky derailleurs for 30 years. Probably had problems with them twice.

I've had complete opposite experiences, there is issues with the derailleurs constantly. Switching to internal gears and a belt instead of a chain has made commuting a much better experience and may in some cases actually cheaper in the long run when you factor in the saved maintenance time and costs.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#192

Post by watwut »

tacticalturtle wrote: post #89
lostlogin wrote: post #16

I’ve been doing a bit of (non e-bike) riding in poor weather of late, and it’s really surprising just how wet and dirty everything gets. After a wet road ride, every surface is covered in black, greasy dirt. It rots fabric, makes grinding paste in mechanical parts and generally makes everything worse. You need really good seals to keep that crap out.

I never see them in the US outside of city bike share programs, but I feel like most casual bike users would be better served by internal gear hubs and similar closed systems. The maintenance is minimal, outside of dropping some oil in every year. But for some reason, every bike in a bike shop, including the most casual upright bike, has a finicky derailleur. So instead we’re doomed to a life of misaligned derailleur…

Practically, all the "all weather" bike commuters I know do a yearly maintenance at best and that is it. It is not that finnicky, actually, unless you aim for maximum performance or do hardcore mountain biking (those do maintenance after each ride).

It is dirty after rain, but they still just leave it at that.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#193

Post by zarzavat »

londons_explore wrote: post #189
mikhailfranco wrote: post #184

There is a simple scale for water and dirt ingress, e.g. IP65 for protection from water jets and fine dust: https://www.iec.ch/ip-ratings There are labs that test equipment and verify the claimed ratings. It should be simple for the bike or motor manufacturers to upgrade their seals by one IP step. Most suppliers provide a significant range of IP coverage in their catalogs. The price difference is probably small. The…

Most ebike motors are air cooled - ie. Outdoor air goes into the motor and flows around the magnets and coils to cool them. Such a design is fundamentally incompatible with being fully water sealed.

I feel like there must be some clever solution to this using heat sinks / heat pipes.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#194

Post by andrewshadura »

ode wrote: post #182
heresie-dabord wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If in a dry climate, a derailleur transmission can last a long time and will be cheap to maintain. But once a person starts replacing quality components with like quality, especially in a wet climate, a derailleur transmission can be expensive over 10 years. The set of my experience is { Shimano: [ $various_derailleurs, Nexus 3, Nexus 7, Alfine 11 ] , Rohloff: [14 speed], Other: [rear-hub e-bike] } $various_derailleu…

Why is the Nexus 3 rubbish?

It isn't. It's good enough for small hills and requires very little maintenance or adjustment. And it's cheap.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#195

Post by HeatrayEnjoyer »

petre wrote: post #140
ARandomerDude wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, why would a person spend that kind of money on an ebike? An entry-level motorcycle is less than half that. What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? One example among many: https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/cruiser/rebel-500

> What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? Exercise and silence.

What about EV motorcycles? That at least solves noise.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#196

Post by ReptileMan »

ifwinterco wrote: post #142
kibwen wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not hard to find e-bikes with belt drives. Honestly, I think they'll take over the e-bikes market within 10 years or so (I think there are still some outstanding patents?). More expensive and slightly less efficient than a chain, but both of those are probably negligible for the context of e-bikes, and in exchange you never get grease on your pant leg, you never need to lube anything, you never need to worry abo…

Motorbikes still overwhelmingly use chains, not sure why but there must be a good reason

Belts are not suitable for passing lots of torque. This is why cvt are not that popular outside of small-ish cars.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#197

Post by HeatrayEnjoyer »

londons_explore wrote: post #189
mikhailfranco wrote: post #184

There is a simple scale for water and dirt ingress, e.g. IP65 for protection from water jets and fine dust: https://www.iec.ch/ip-ratings There are labs that test equipment and verify the claimed ratings. It should be simple for the bike or motor manufacturers to upgrade their seals by one IP step. Most suppliers provide a significant range of IP coverage in their catalogs. The price difference is probably small. The…

Most ebike motors are air cooled - ie. Outdoor air goes into the motor and flows around the magnets and coils to cool them. Such a design is fundamentally incompatible with being fully water sealed.

There's no combustion, why is there cooling at all?

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#198

Post by dan-robertson »

joe_the_user wrote: post #90
serf wrote: post #11

it's not surprising to me that the bosch mid-drives are failing, they're typically placed at an angle that catches all the run off from every tube at the lowest point on the bike (except on recumbents), and the controller is (usually) integrated. mid-drives are great, the gear advantage rocks; the bosch units suck but unfortunately they had so much industry sway that a lot of ebike frames are coming out built around…

I can't see how mid-drives are significantly superior. An electric motor doesn't need any gear advantage and sending more force to the rear wheel seems like it's actually a disadvantage since it put more stress on bicycle components that are often designed for just human levels of force. As far as I can tell, the mid-drives became dominant just 'cause people wanted to have something the looked more "seamless". I have…

One might expect some disadvantages to having more spinning mass in the rear wheel.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#199

Post by inglor_cz »

HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #197
londons_explore wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most ebike motors are air cooled - ie. Outdoor air goes into the motor and flows around the magnets and coils to cool them. Such a design is fundamentally incompatible with being fully water sealed.

There's no combustion, why is there cooling at all?

Friction of internal components of the motor -> heat.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#200

Post by isbvhodnvemrwvn »

HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #197
londons_explore wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most ebike motors are air cooled - ie. Outdoor air goes into the motor and flows around the magnets and coils to cool them. Such a design is fundamentally incompatible with being fully water sealed.

There's no combustion, why is there cooling at all?

There is no combustion in a kettle either, why does it boil water? Axles and brakes don't combust either.
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