Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 329 posts

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#181

Post by mikhailfranco »

lostlogin wrote: post #16

I’ve been doing a bit of (non e-bike) riding in poor weather of late, and it’s really surprising just how wet and dirty everything gets. After a wet road ride, every surface is covered in black, greasy dirt. It rots fabric, makes grinding paste in mechanical parts and generally makes everything worse. You need really good seals to keep that crap out.

The black greasy dirt is an emulsion of worn tyre particles, sandy powdered dirt and maybe a little spilt fuel. It's probably toxic - the pollution from tyre wear is underestimated.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#182

Post by ode »

heresie-dabord wrote: post #103
tacticalturtle wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never see them in the US outside of city bike share programs, but I feel like most casual bike users would be better served by internal gear hubs and similar closed systems. The maintenance is minimal, outside of dropping some oil in every year. But for some reason, every bike in a bike shop, including the most casual upright bike, has a finicky derailleur. So instead we’re doomed to a life of misaligned derailleur…

If in a dry climate, a derailleur transmission can last a long time and will be cheap to maintain. But once a person starts replacing quality components with like quality, especially in a wet climate, a derailleur transmission can be expensive over 10 years. The set of my experience is { Shimano: [ $various_derailleurs, Nexus 3, Nexus 7, Alfine 11 ] , Rohloff: [14 speed], Other: [rear-hub e-bike] } $various_derailleu…

Why is the Nexus 3 rubbish?

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#183

Post by walthamstow »

vr46 wrote: post #33

Good to hear this, since it encourages me to stick with the VanMoof I bought in 2019. Fancier, swishier bikes abound, but the VM just keeps on truckin’

Yeah my VM ES2 from 2019 is still in good condition and riding well. I use it every day.

Shame about the company but a former mechanic from the London shop has started his own repair business so hopefully I'll be riding mine for a few more years to come.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#184

Post by mikhailfranco »

There is a simple scale for water and dirt ingress, e.g. IP65 for protection from water jets and fine dust:

https://www.iec.ch/ip-ratings

There are labs that test equipment and verify the claimed ratings. It should be simple for the bike or motor manufacturers to upgrade their seals by one IP step. Most suppliers provide a significant range of IP coverage in their catalogs. The price difference is probably small.

The only issue is that any maintenance on the motors has to respect the seals - understand how to disassemble and reassemble without compromising the join.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#185

Post by fatrat »

nox101 wrote: post #157
elbasti wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious answer: they are lighter, quieter, go slower, handle differently, and have access to different infrastructure. The lighter and slower bit may sound glib, but it makes a huge difference to what it feels like to ride them and to have them ridden around you.

a Riese and Muller is not a light bike

It's a heavy bike, but a very light motorcycle, which is the point

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#186

Post by microtonal »

Too wrote: post #162
tacticalturtle wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never see them in the US outside of city bike share programs, but I feel like most casual bike users would be better served by internal gear hubs and similar closed systems. The maintenance is minimal, outside of dropping some oil in every year. But for some reason, every bike in a bike shop, including the most casual upright bike, has a finicky derailleur. So instead we’re doomed to a life of misaligned derailleur…

Mountain bikers run on "finicky" derailleurs over rocks and through wet mud and sand all day. They are unbelievably reliable. With the modern 1x10 or even 1x12 systems, you get enough range to remove the front shifter, reducing maintenance even more, remove almost all sources of jumping chain and allows fitting chain guard with better coverage. SRAM has a famous video where they lay the bike sideways and jump on the…

Still cleaning regularly is a lot of work (been there) and most people here never clean it, resulting in unreliable shifting and non-smooth cycling. Most people are better served by an internal hub and belt drive. Almost no maintenance (just bring it to a bike shop yearly to get it tuned up again).

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#187

Post by Bootvis »

glenngillen wrote: post #87
devbent wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just dropped a bunch of money on a Bosch based bike because I was told they are very reliable. I'm going to be very annoyed if that turns out to not be the case....

Bosch is in a bunch of high end eMTB setups, including a few of my friends’ rides. We do plenty of wet riding, and the bikes have been hit with the hose for years now to clean them off when we’re done. If there’s a problem here I think it must be the frame design or the way they’re installed and not an across the board problem with Bosch components.

Your mileage may literally vary but indeed: this no problems with my Bosch either.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#188

Post by jhugo »

Aurornis wrote: post #133
brikym wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the Shimano/Sram cartel really want to keep the chain/derailleur cash cow alive.

Belt drive is a fixed ratio system. It’s not comparable to a derailleur which has a wide range of gear ratios. Apples and oranges. One doesn’t swap for the other. It’s not an industry conspiracy.

Belt drives are often used with an internally-geared hub, so the system as a whole still has gears.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#189

Post by londons_explore »

mikhailfranco wrote: post #184

There is a simple scale for water and dirt ingress, e.g. IP65 for protection from water jets and fine dust: https://www.iec.ch/ip-ratings There are labs that test equipment and verify the claimed ratings. It should be simple for the bike or motor manufacturers to upgrade their seals by one IP step. Most suppliers provide a significant range of IP coverage in their catalogs. The price difference is probably small. The…

Most ebike motors are air cooled - ie. Outdoor air goes into the motor and flows around the magnets and coils to cool them.

Such a design is fundamentally incompatible with being fully water sealed.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#190

Post by londons_explore »

microtonal wrote: post #186
Too wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mountain bikers run on "finicky" derailleurs over rocks and through wet mud and sand all day. They are unbelievably reliable. With the modern 1x10 or even 1x12 systems, you get enough range to remove the front shifter, reducing maintenance even more, remove almost all sources of jumping chain and allows fitting chain guard with better coverage. SRAM has a famous video where they lay the bike sideways and jump on the…

Still cleaning regularly is a lot of work (been there) and most people here never clean it, resulting in unreliable shifting and non-smooth cycling. Most people are better served by an internal hub and belt drive. Almost no maintenance (just bring it to a bike shop yearly to get it tuned up again).

Internal hubs are common in places where biking is common - ie. Amsterdam.

Derailleur's just seem to be far cheaper, I suspect because most of their parts can be made from stamped steel, whereas most parts of an internal gearbox must be CNC machined and face hardened.

Post reply on HN