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French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

torrentfreak.com

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Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#41

Post by anymouse123456 »

dmitrygr wrote: post #25
anymouse123456 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same concern here. Also, the phrasing in both, but especially the HN title made me think Cloudflare chose to do something, but it turns out the French court is forcing all of them.

They could fight and choose not to. They could ignore this and choose not to. They deserve our judgement for that

The article is too thin to know what, if any fight was had.

I suspect France could find a way to make things very difficult for them all.

I suppose they could withdraw their service from the country in protest, but it's not obvious that would leave anyone better off.

It's a difficult call and I'm not prepared to harshly judge an organization for complying with a legal, enforceable injunction.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#42

Post by jsnell »

geor9e wrote: post #36

https://www.mic.com/articles/85987/turkish-protesters-are-sp... Repressive governments have a history of legal orders telling Google to block protestors from accessing twitter.com but Google always refuses to comply. So their new policy of complying isn't about legality. France is a big market. Perhaps it's about money.

Uh, there's nothing in your link about a government ordering Google to block Twitter? Since you say this is a common occurence, I'm guessing it'll be easy for you to find a source that actually supports your claim.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#43

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

josephcsible wrote: post #34
belorn wrote: post #31

It is times like this that I recommend technically inclined people to try setting up your own dns resolver and see how minimal impact a few/handful of milliseconds on first access has on the internet experience. Practically all popular domains also uses some form of anycast network, so the benefit of a single large shared resolver that caches the dns answers has steadily decreased each year. Just make sure its not co…

Setting up your own recursive DNS resolver to circumvent ISP blocks is pointless unless you do so on a VPS or something, because otherwise, your ISP will just hijack the recursive queries it makes. And DNSSEC doesn't help if the ISP just wants to block you from learning the real IP.

I’ve heard this before. Is there a way to reliably detect if this is occurring or case studies of where this has occurred?

Edit: I assume dns over https prevents this also, right?

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#44

Post by [deleted] »

anymouse123456 wrote: post #41
dmitrygr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could fight and choose not to. They could ignore this and choose not to. They deserve our judgement for that

The article is too thin to know what, if any fight was had. I suspect France could find a way to make things very difficult for them all. I suppose they could withdraw their service from the country in protest, but it's not obvious that would leave anyone better off. It's a difficult call and I'm not prepared to harshly judge an organization for complying with a legal, enforceable injunction.

[deleted]

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#45

Post by anymouse123456 »

dmitrygr wrote: post #25
anymouse123456 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same concern here. Also, the phrasing in both, but especially the HN title made me think Cloudflare chose to do something, but it turns out the French court is forcing all of them.

They could fight and choose not to. They could ignore this and choose not to. They deserve our judgement for that

If you want to judge someone so badly, why not go after the politicians who are creating these despicable policies?

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#46

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

leloctai wrote: post #39
lm411 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just footybite.cc will become footybite1.cc, then footybite2.cc... so on. The people writing these laws are seemingly clueless about the internet. Or perhaps, the lawyers just don't care as they are getting paid.

How will users find the new domains? If they can reliability do so then dns is not needed in the first place. If not, then the laws are effective.

Twitter and Wikipedia as a source to locate the actual dns address worked for the pirate bay back in the day, I assume if nothing else piracy sites would not be afraid to just use raw ip addresses.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#47

Post by AnthonyMouse »

jsnell wrote: post #37
dmitrygr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could fight and choose not to. They could ignore this and choose not to. They deserve our judgement for that

They did fight it in court. They lost. I'm surprised you're so keen on having big tech companies intentionally ignore court orders and just break the law. Like, it's obviously something none of us should want.

Why should we not want this when the law is bad? The government should face pushback from all sides when attempting something odious.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#48

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

I’ve always been curious why dns is a go-to for oppressing unwanted websites. Is it truly difficult to block at an IP level? There would be collateral damage in doing so, but it wouldn’t take long for most VPS providers to dump piracy sites if the alternate is their entire network block being dropped.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#49

Post by AnthonyMouse »

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #43
josephcsible wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting up your own recursive DNS resolver to circumvent ISP blocks is pointless unless you do so on a VPS or something, because otherwise, your ISP will just hijack the recursive queries it makes. And DNSSEC doesn't help if the ISP just wants to block you from learning the real IP.

I’ve heard this before. Is there a way to reliably detect if this is occurring or case studies of where this has occurred? Edit: I assume dns over https prevents this also, right?

DNSSEC would reveal that it's happening straight away, but that doesn't get you the IP address.

Of course, as mentioned putting your recursive DNS server on a cheap VPS somewhere that doesn't hack your connection would.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#50

Post by jsnell »

zzo38computer wrote: post #40
jsnell wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did fight it in court. They lost. I'm surprised you're so keen on having big tech companies intentionally ignore court orders and just break the law. Like, it's obviously something none of us should want.

There is other alternative, such as: get rid of their DNS service entirely, or make a petition for changing these laws.

Making a petition to change the laws sounds like a great way of achieving nothing. It will certainly not mean you get to ignore the court orders.

Shutting down public DNS in France would be an option (a garbage option that nobody would actually choose in this case and that'd solve nothing, but an option nonetheless). That's not what dmitrygr was asking for though. They want big tech companies to ignore legitimate court orders to protect some scummy football pirate sites.

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