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French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

torrentfreak.com

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Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#31

Post by belorn »

It is times like this that I recommend technically inclined people to try setting up your own dns resolver and see how minimal impact a few/handful of milliseconds on first access has on the internet experience. Practically all popular domains also uses some form of anycast network, so the benefit of a single large shared resolver that caches the dns answers has steadily decreased each year.

Just make sure its not configured to be a public resolver, and only allow local network or whitelisted addresses.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#32

Post by ihsw »

snowwrestler wrote: post #2

Over a decade ago, a ton of tech companies (including Google) coordinated a “blackout the Internet” day of protest against U.S. legislation that would have required them to alter DNS to fight piracy. Interesting that now that France actually does it, they say they will comply. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_SOPA_and_PI...

It was not about standing up against IP juggernauts in the interest of users, but in the interest of themselves -- it was tech companies flexing their strength to show that cooperation with tech companies was required, and that they are open to cooperation in other ways too.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#33

Post by jedberg »

Jamie9912 wrote: post #23

Couldn't Cloudflare route these DNS queries outside the country, and therefore not be subject to French laws?

They could, but it would be weird. They use anycast for their DNS, so it will land on the French server before they know what the query is. There isn't really a way to tell a client, "no go to another server with the same IP address". But also they still want all the other French traffic to go to the French servers for performance reasons, so they wouldn't want to send all French traffic outside the country.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#34

Post by josephcsible »

belorn wrote: post #31

It is times like this that I recommend technically inclined people to try setting up your own dns resolver and see how minimal impact a few/handful of milliseconds on first access has on the internet experience. Practically all popular domains also uses some form of anycast network, so the benefit of a single large shared resolver that caches the dns answers has steadily decreased each year. Just make sure its not co…

Setting up your own recursive DNS resolver to circumvent ISP blocks is pointless unless you do so on a VPS or something, because otherwise, your ISP will just hijack the recursive queries it makes. And DNSSEC doesn't help if the ISP just wants to block you from learning the real IP.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#35

Post by taneq »

belorn wrote: post #31

It is times like this that I recommend technically inclined people to try setting up your own dns resolver and see how minimal impact a few/handful of milliseconds on first access has on the internet experience. Practically all popular domains also uses some form of anycast network, so the benefit of a single large shared resolver that caches the dns answers has steadily decreased each year. Just make sure its not co…

This was a big surprise for me when I set up a local DNS for work. Everything suddenly felt much snappier.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#36

Post by geor9e »

https://www.mic.com/articles/85987/turkish-protesters-are-sp...

Repressive governments have a history of legal orders telling Google to block protestors from accessing twitter.com but Google always refuses to comply. So their new policy of complying isn't about legality. France is a big market. Perhaps it's about money.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#37

Post by jsnell »

dmitrygr wrote: post #25
anymouse123456 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same concern here. Also, the phrasing in both, but especially the HN title made me think Cloudflare chose to do something, but it turns out the French court is forcing all of them.

They could fight and choose not to. They could ignore this and choose not to. They deserve our judgement for that

They did fight it in court. They lost.

I'm surprised you're so keen on having big tech companies intentionally ignore court orders and just break the law. Like, it's obviously something none of us should want.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#38

Post by AnthonyMouse »

Dalewyn wrote: post #21
bognition wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last decade Tech has become part of the establishment. They are one of the dominant controlling forces. The blackout was _not_ about preserving free speech, or any other moral high road. It was purely about control. Tech hadn’t yet cemented their position as a dominant player and didn’t want to cede the control they had. Now that they’ve embedded themselves in the ruling class they don’t care as much because t…

There's also the nuance that while SOPA/PIPA were bills being legislated for potential passage, France is citing laws already in effect. For better or worse, if you do business in you follow 's laws or GTFO.

> For better or worse, if you do business in you follow 's laws or GTFO.

That does rather imply that the laws are worthless. Obviously there is going to be someone who doesn't do business in France and operates a public DNS server that doesn't censor anything.

Regardless of that, I would challenge your premise. You can violate an unjust law and risk the consequences. And if you get the PR right, there may not even be any consequences:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple%E2%80%93FBI_encryption_d...

But to your point, this is one of the reasons it's important to get these laws off the books and keep them off the books. Once you have the law, the government gets to choose the test case. You know perfectly well they'll be using it against dissidents and false positives tomorrow, but the test case is going to be some loathsome terrorists or a commercial piracy operation with no shades of grey, and then that's the case that sets the precedent.

They should never be allowed the opportunity.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#39

Post by leloctai »

lm411 wrote: post #28
flawn wrote: post #3

Total non-sense - just pushes people to use VPN or their own custom DNS which tunnels back to 1.1.1.1 or whatever.

Or just footybite.cc will become footybite1.cc, then footybite2.cc... so on. The people writing these laws are seemingly clueless about the internet. Or perhaps, the lawyers just don't care as they are getting paid.

How will users find the new domains? If they can reliability do so then dns is not needed in the first place. If not, then the laws are effective.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#40

Post by zzo38computer »

jsnell wrote: post #37
dmitrygr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could fight and choose not to. They could ignore this and choose not to. They deserve our judgement for that

They did fight it in court. They lost. I'm surprised you're so keen on having big tech companies intentionally ignore court orders and just break the law. Like, it's obviously something none of us should want.

There is other alternative, such as: get rid of their DNS service entirely, or make a petition for changing these laws.
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