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The number of CS grads who don't even know basic Git commands is astounding

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Re: The number of CS grads who don't even know basic Git commands is astounding

#11

Post by vunderba »

alexmolas wrote: post #4

This is why it's called Computer Science, and not Software Engineering.

Exactly.

Graduates of a computer science program don't know specific commands around versioning software that they can learn in 10 minutes on the job. Gasp.

Algorithms, mathematics and logic are timeless, tooling is not, and it baffles me that people can't distinguish between the two.

EDIT: Furthermore, where did they pull this statistic from? I didn't realize that the census also included questions around git knowledge.

Re: The number of CS grads who don't even know basic Git commands is astounding

#12

Post by zeroonetwothree »

cranberryturkey wrote: post #3

I've worked with hundreds of CS grads, the worst programmer I ever came across (as far as readibility of his code) had a master's degree in CS from stanford.

I would look more at their undergrad, a masters doesn’t really mean much. It’s a short program and mostly focused on more advanced topics, not standard coding skills.

(Full disclosure: I have a masters)

Re: The number of CS grads who don't even know basic Git commands is astounding

#13

Post by zeroonetwothree »

CS degrees aren’t meant to teach any particular skill. They should be teaching general knowledge that helps you adapt to whatever the FOTM is in industry. Realistically you can learn to use git in less than one day. It just shouldn’t be a significant barrier to hiring someone.

None of the specific languages or software I learned during my degree do I even use now in my current role.

Re: The number of CS grads who don't even know basic Git commands is astounding

#14

Post by knighthack »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #13

CS degrees aren’t meant to teach any particular skill. They should be teaching general knowledge that helps you adapt to whatever the FOTM is in industry. Realistically you can learn to use git in less than one day. It just shouldn’t be a significant barrier to hiring someone. None of the specific languages or software I learned during my degree do I even use now in my current role.

Git is not just a fad; it's a literal underpinning of most serious software development these days, especially if you need to work with others.

That a CS grad doesn't even know basic Git is telling not of their degree, but of the individual themselves - that they have no desire to learn beyond what's taught, and couldn't even be bothered to look into the requirements of the industry that they want to work in.

I argue that it should be a barrier to hiring, on that ground.

Re: The number of CS grads who don't even know basic Git commands is astounding

#15

Post by vitaminCPP »

Uehreka wrote: post #9
alexmolas wrote: post #4

This is why it's called Computer Science, and not Software Engineering.

So where should people who want to learn the discipline of software engineering go? It’s definitely what most CS majors are actually there for, and there’s no separate software engineering major at (almost) any liberal arts colleges. I get that saying “that’s why it’s CS not SE” is the hip thing to say when this comes up, but it doesn’t answer the underlying issue, which is that people want a mix of theory and job tr…

I don't know where you are from, but in Canada there's a clear distinction between those 2 degres.

Re: The number of CS grads who don't even know basic Git commands is astounding

#16

Post by qludes »

knighthack wrote: post #14
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #13

CS degrees aren’t meant to teach any particular skill. They should be teaching general knowledge that helps you adapt to whatever the FOTM is in industry. Realistically you can learn to use git in less than one day. It just shouldn’t be a significant barrier to hiring someone. None of the specific languages or software I learned during my degree do I even use now in my current role.

Git is not just a fad; it's a literal underpinning of most serious software development these days, especially if you need to work with others. That a CS grad doesn't even know basic Git is telling not of their degree, but of the individual themselves - that they have no desire to learn beyond what's taught, and couldn't even be bothered to look into the requirements of the industry that they want to work in. I argue…

Even if they're focused on theoretical CS they should still be using git to upload their tex files somewhere in 2024. And from an undergrad degree I'd expect both an OS class and an algorithm or datastructurs course that would use some kind of VCS.

Or maybe all that doesn't exist when you attend Canadian Chromebook degree mills?

Re: The number of CS grads who don't even know basic Git commands is astounding

#17

Post by threatofrain »

Uehreka wrote: post #9
alexmolas wrote: post #4

This is why it's called Computer Science, and not Software Engineering.

So where should people who want to learn the discipline of software engineering go? It’s definitely what most CS majors are actually there for, and there’s no separate software engineering major at (almost) any liberal arts colleges. I get that saying “that’s why it’s CS not SE” is the hip thing to say when this comes up, but it doesn’t answer the underlying issue, which is that people want a mix of theory and job tr…

Some universities differentiate between engineering and CS.

Re: The number of CS grads who don't even know basic Git commands is astounding

#18

Post by vetrom »

Way back in my matriculation, I saw the same behavior but written in terms of CVS, even. As some other posters have written, CS, as it is purely taught, doesn't often touch on the realities of software engineering and delivery.

IMO, it should. An education without any relation to practical skills just makes it that much harder to leverage what you learn.

Re: The number of CS grads who don't even know basic Git commands is astounding

#19

Post by 9659 »

cranberryturkey wrote: post #3

I've worked with hundreds of CS grads, the worst programmer I ever came across (as far as readibility of his code) had a master's degree in CS from stanford.

It could be they are working at a level higher than you understand.

Not being snarky, but the elite schools are significantly advanced.

Imagine learning algorithms from Knuth (yes, I know he hasn't taught undergraduates in 50 years). Looking at the results after being taught by Dr. Smith at Generic State University, you might be unable to recognize the genius.

Re: The number of CS grads who don't even know basic Git commands is astounding

#20

Post by solarkraft »

sureglymop wrote: post #6
alexmolas wrote: post #4

This is why it's called Computer Science, and not Software Engineering.

In my uni, "Software Engineering" was the one class of the CS program that had nothing to do with programming. It was about UML, SOLID, DRY, KISS, agile, scrum and more. Useless class that was mostly a waste of time. On the other hand, we had classes like Operating Systems, Computer Networks and more where we had to write things in C and assembly.

It teaches you how to build practically functional and maintainable software instead of the prototypes that are enough to pass other classes. It's one step beyond just programming.
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