Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 485 posts

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#141

Post by the_snooze »

dotps1 wrote: post #125
Avshalom wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a system that constantly surveils you, of course it's meant for surveillance. The only question is who gets access, is it just you, or is it you and the cops, or is it you and the cops and anyone with a checkbook.

I think the issue is more that nobody asked for it. These tools are useful, and on a Mac if you want Rewind, you have to know you want it, go out download it, pay for it, install it yourself .. and you knew what you were getting into the whole time. Having a tool like this planted in your device without your consent is pushing your userbase over the edge. If they made it a separate feature you had to manually install…

I think you hit the nail on the head. The feature itself can be benign and useful if Microsoft valued being respectful of user agency. Using Windows feels increasingly like a battle against against someone who can't accept "no" and tries to sneak around your intentions.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#142

Post by gmd63 »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #126
digging wrote: post #55

This is confusing and vague to me, which I believe is exactly the intent. It focuses on security, reiterates that security is their top priority (and we know that this is untrue). What were the security problems? They don't even allude to the existence or detection of any specific security problems. It sounds to me like they're figuring out a new marketing approach, or they're softening the blow by "listening to user…

You're assuming Microsoft acts as a singular, cohesive entity, which like any company it is not.

It's convenient for corporations to have this as an excuse, but they should be assessed as singular entities. They enjoy corporate personhood also.

As the size and influence of an entity increases, it has more power in the economy and therefore should have more responsibility, not less, to act according to high standards.

A gargantuan company that is 7% of the S&P 500 getting whoopsie-daisy passes because it is so large and nobody knows what it's doing is a dystopian situation that we should have incentives in place to discourage

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#144

Post by nofunsir »

neltnerb wrote: post #108
simonw wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very cynical take. I've not seen anything to make me think this feature is intended for surveillance as opposed to personal utility. The personal utility benefits are very clear to me - the problem is the ease with which malicious attackers might steal the data (if they can breach the system).

I do not think it is cynical to assume that Microsoft would sell this to companies as a way to do constant surveillance of their employees with OCR and LLMs used to make it easier for a manager to sift through massive amounts of data. That's just an actual use case that their true customers would pay for, I think it's awful and should be illegal under any reasonable worker protections but why would they not advertise…

It's exactly this.

Development of a feature like this surely started during the WFH craze, where managers could no longer casually walk behind people who had to have their monitors facing outwards. A market opened up, and this is not the only tool for this sort of corporate surveillance.

Certain Software Engineers will probably get some time without it by claiming they need Admin rights and that the system messes up their graphics or slows down their system or what have you.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#145

Post by renegade-otter »

Thorrez wrote: post #110
bachmeier wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's more to it than that. After a while, they say "We're going to send some of your information into the cloud to give you a better experience." Then a while after that, you have to click the button giving permission to send all your information to the cloud or you can't use Windows. In spite of claims often made on this site that nobody understands or cares about privacy, people do care and understand wh…

Does Recall work locally? If so, why would it send data to the cloud?

Because the whole point is to collect massive amounts of data to "train" their AI.

AI is the new Big Data, but instead of just wanting your basic information, where you moved your mouse, and how long you stayed on a page, they want all of it.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#146

Post by surfingdino »

potatolicious wrote: post #117
surfingdino wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every month I am in meetings where LLMs are being considered for applications they are absolutely not the right fit, but the answer to my concerns is "we need more AI advocates". These conversations are led by people who never actually read a single paper on LLMs or tried them in real life. They have no idea about risks, but plough on because their clueless bosses told them to come up with a plan to use AI.

I remain very skeptical that most companies or products can or should integrate with LLMs - and I say this as someone who works on a LLM-based product! Overall I feel like our industry has lost the plot to a large degree. Hype has always to some degree exceeded the merits of the technology-of-the-month, but the last few cycles have been truly extraordinary in terms of the gap between the breathless hype and the reali…

Investors want their 10x returns. It's worse than you expect. They know nothing and reject scientific papers that discuss problems with LLMs. They were told by marketers that all problems with LLMs can be solved by feeding them good data... which is a sneaky way for LLM operators to obtain access to data they should never be allowed anywhere near. People with the collective brain of a Handforth Parish Council are working on strategies for using AI on PII data. Imagine the cretins from the Office discussing AI and you get the picture.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#147

Post by adamrezich »

simonw wrote: post #90
segasaturn wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My takeaway is that Microsoft has been trying to boil the frog, but slipped and turned the temperature up too quickly. They're retreating for now, but make no mistake that Recall will slowly trickle back into Windows under another name. Every major power broker wants something like Recall to become the norm - bosses to spy on their employees, governments to spy on their citizens/enemies, and tech CEO's to collect tra…

This is a very cynical take. I've not seen anything to make me think this feature is intended for surveillance as opposed to personal utility. The personal utility benefits are very clear to me - the problem is the ease with which malicious attackers might steal the data (if they can breach the system).

This is not the first time they've done this—have you forgotten the "Xbox One-Eighty," when they initially announced the Xbox One as having mandatory Kinect functionality, only to similarly realize they boiled the proverbial frog too quickly and renege?

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#148

Post by andybak »

throw20240511 wrote: post #101
simonw wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very cynical take. I've not seen anything to make me think this feature is intended for surveillance as opposed to personal utility. The personal utility benefits are very clear to me - the problem is the ease with which malicious attackers might steal the data (if they can breach the system).

and your take is quite naive. Surveillance is absolutely the purpose, overt or not. The huge push for bossware/spyware for windows in 2020+ demonstrates that the less ethical portions of industry desperately want to spy on users workstations! Eventually there will be retention laws in certain regulated industries that mandate such technologies! Why enable this potential abuse? Microsoft is trying to Sherlock the surv…

This doesn't make sense. Screen recording is trivial. Why go to this much trouble? I don't buy the "Trojan Horse" argument in this case.

Occam's Razor, folks.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#149

Post by vsuperpower2020 »

red_admiral wrote: post #129
simonw wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very cynical take. I've not seen anything to make me think this feature is intended for surveillance as opposed to personal utility. The personal utility benefits are very clear to me - the problem is the ease with which malicious attackers might steal the data (if they can breach the system).

As far as I know, a long while ago, the Islamic Republic of Iran asked Cisco to develop a filtering solution to stop their citizens from accessing undesirable content. Cisco said no. Then US companies started asking for filters to stop their employees watching porn at work, Cisco invented a centralised domain/packet filtering solution for their routers, and Iran went "can we buy one of those, please?". My take is tha…

When would this be useful? Microsoft's best examples are that the user forgot the location of a chinese food place your friend told you once.
Post reply on HN