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Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

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21–30 of 102 posts

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#21
I don't know how anyone was ever all that engaged at large IT/Software companies - I always got the feeling I was working with a bunch of overly enthusiastic children lead by psychopaths who would cut up their families for the organs or whatever if they thought it would help them fulfill whatever their current ambition was.

I now work at a really small company lead by people who seem genuine (they've managed to at least keep up the act for a few years I suppose). It doesn't pay particularly well (though not bad for where I live either), and there's no "growth" potential (I learn lots of new stuff, but the money isn't going to double or triple or anything like that). No ads or hyperscaling - we just make a product that people are willing to pay money for. I'm as engaged as I've ever been for an employer.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#22
post #8

Maybe it's because money doesn't buy as much as it did 4 years ago. Since most employees have limited control over their mostly-static salaries, they've scaled down output accordingly.

This hits home; I’m getting offers similar to what I was getting 4 years ago but life has gotten almost twice as expensive.

And the market is also terrible so everyone takes what they can get and it shows on the effort put in.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#23
People have realized that the systemic rot is far bigger than one Bad Orange Man, a Putler way out in Russia, & the horde of "science deniers". The high of frenzy from the 5 minutes of hate has worn off. Yet the problems remain...

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#24

To me, this seems like a good sign that maybe the US norm of workaholism is finally on the decline and workers are starting to set boundaries. Work is a financial exchange of labor for money. "Super engagement" is not necessarily part of that exchange. IMO save your super-engagement for your family, your hobbies, your church, service to your community, and so on. Lifetimes are limited, how much of your soul-hours sho…

This is why employees advocating RTO for the socialization depress me. There’s a big world out there, go find it.

You will spend a substantial chunk of your life working. Likely a plurality of your time alive as an adult. Wanting it to be socially rewarding is reasonable.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#25
I'm young, so a lot of my experience is mainly from being a kid/teen that was enamored by the tech industry, to joining in on the tail end (early 2010's).

In the 90's/2000's, the tech industry was seen as the place for visionaries and the hard workers who were there to change the world, to make it a better place. Google had the motto "Don't be evil", and wanted to make all of the world's information easily accessible. Apple was for the perfectionists, the artsy-tech crowd, Facebook was there to connect people, etc.

But as those company's (and the industry) matured, those dreams were pushed to the side. As these companies grew, it became about shareholder profit (because remember, company's have to operate in the best interest of their shareholders legally, which means protecting and increasing their wealth). As such, those visionaries at Google who were making the world a better place by making information accessible, now collect data and advertise to the world in, objectively, unethical ways. Those at Facebook who wanted to connect people from all over the world to build communities and promote discussion, now just grab as much data as possible to promote hyper-targeted ads.

The industry matured, interest rates rose, and VC's became more picky with where they spent their money. As such, these smaller slights against users and employees had to be accelerated in recent years. Teams and even entire departments were laid off, the quantity of ads was increased, while the quality decreased, free services locked behind paywalls, all in an effort to save money to meet a 5% profit growth that quarter.

Tech workers are no longer viewed as the world changers leading the company's vision for greatness, some execs view us as an obstacle to their revenue goals. We're a liability that needs to be mitigated, and layoffs are an easy way to do that.

Ultimately, we've all become kind of jaded to the tech industry. It's no longer about making the world a better place, it's about money, and we're not in the club.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#26
post #8

Maybe it's because money doesn't buy as much as it did 4 years ago. Since most employees have limited control over their mostly-static salaries, they've scaled down output accordingly.

> they've scaled down output accordingly. It's easy to dismiss this as just a smart ass comment, but it's 100% real for me. My employer pretends to treat me fairly and I pretend to work hard.

It's 100% real in my experience. I delivered twice the goal my manager set and got a 1% raise. Since then I've scaled my effort way back. Work is a necessity, not a priority.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#27

Over-hiring in the zero interest years. It resulted in the hiring of non-qualified personnel and of qualified personnel with no concrete plans on how to utilize them. Either is a buzz kill, especially when the chickens came home to roost with respect to results (revenues) vs ballooned valuations.

[dead]

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#28
I theorize it's the wage gap. Why bust your ass for a company that makes millions or more, when the wage you get as an employee will not even allow you to buy a roof over your head?

Real estate is bought in bulk by the same people that rake in the big bucks in those companies as well. And rented out to people that can't afford to buy a house for premium profit.

The same is happening online: companies are using the collective intelligence of everyone to train models to sell back to those same people for profit.

We're getting screwed at both ends

For the first time in a long while a generation is worse off than their parents. Food, housing, health, clean air and water. Every basic need from the bottom of Maslow's pyramid is currently under scrutiny.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#29

Lots of layoffs over last few years. Stuck at a company with high pay that I loathe (bad leadership, focus, expecting do 2 peoples worth of work) and searching for a year plus with barely a nibble. I feel guilty I’m a drag on the company but so hard to move in this market. So just why I haven’t been that engaged and burnout. Maybe others have similar experience.

Why would you feel guilty for a company who can cut your position at any time?

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#30
I think an engaging workplace is hard to cultivate. You have to be working on hard stuff and the people working toward it need real stakes in the game. That's not easy to find these days. If you do want this I think you'd be able to find it in AI companies that are _actually_ pushing the envelope (not most of them).

But honestly, I think it's better to find meaning outside of work. Work on something hard outside of work, or just find a few hobbies that make you happy. I'm not even 30 and I already personally feel the "grind mindset" leaving me as I find the things I thought were most important a decade ago don't matter so much any more e.g. lots of money and climbing the corporate ladder.

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