Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#1

Post by throw_that_away » Thu, Jun 13, 2024, 6:37 PM UTC

Not sure how to say this, but I've been developing code since 1999. Every company I've worked at everyone is super engaged until recently. I know it is easy to blame the pandemic, or remote work, threats of layoffs?... but lately nothing seems to be serious anymore. I'm not speaking for one company but the last 3 I've been at.

Anyone else seeing this?

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#2

Post by mydriasis » Thu, Jun 13, 2024, 7:10 PM UTC

Lack of communication breeds lack of concern, in my opinion. I don't think some folk understand how high your communication bandwidth needs to be to go fully remote.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#3

Post by ilrwbwrkhv » Thu, Jun 13, 2024, 7:13 PM UTC

I recently heard from someone at stripe that their whole internal comms is dead. People are extremely unhappy and disengaged. Something surely is going on.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#4

Post by itsarooster111 » Thu, Jun 13, 2024, 7:19 PM UTC

Lots of layoffs over last few years. Stuck at a company with high pay that I loathe (bad leadership, focus, expecting do 2 peoples worth of work) and searching for a year plus with barely a nibble.

I feel guilty I’m a drag on the company but so hard to move in this market.

So just why I haven’t been that engaged and burnout. Maybe others have similar experience.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#5

Post by mvdtnz » Thu, Jun 13, 2024, 7:24 PM UTC

I feel the same way, but I only have anecdotes from one company that I have stayed with for an unusually long time.

I feel like over the last year a lot of people around me have reached the point where they would naturally start looking around at other opportunities. But there just aren't that many opportunities around. So I suspect people are just hanging about, collecting a paycheque and waiting for the right time to bounce.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#6

Post by spudlyo » Thu, Jun 13, 2024, 7:27 PM UTC

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #3

I recently heard from someone at stripe that their whole internal comms is dead. People are extremely unhappy and disengaged. Something surely is going on.

What is meant by internal comms in this instance? Stripe had probably the most vibrant Slack environment of any place I've ever worked. It'd be very strange indeed if somehow people stopped communicating that way.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#7

Post by ryandrake » Thu, Jun 13, 2024, 7:27 PM UTC

To me, this seems like a good sign that maybe the US norm of workaholism is finally on the decline and workers are starting to set boundaries. Work is a financial exchange of labor for money. "Super engagement" is not necessarily part of that exchange. IMO save your super-engagement for your family, your hobbies, your church, service to your community, and so on. Lifetimes are limited, how much of your soul-hours should you be spending on making some shareholders you've never met rich?

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#8

Post by bm3719 » Thu, Jun 13, 2024, 7:28 PM UTC

Maybe it's because money doesn't buy as much as it did 4 years ago. Since most employees have limited control over their mostly-static salaries, they've scaled down output accordingly.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#9

Post by creaktive » Thu, Jun 13, 2024, 7:29 PM UTC

I blame the enshittification of the Internet. So many of us work with the Internet. And seeing it turning into a pile of garbage is soulcrushing.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#10

Post by dogman144 » Thu, Jun 13, 2024, 7:30 PM UTC

IMO it’s the reality of technology being a business, not a value-set, settling in.

1999-2020 was 20+ years.

That’s about the length of a long-term industry cycle.

It’s also 20 yrs of selling a narrative about tech that recruited ambitious, value-driven people who also wanted to make money.

Don’t want 18 hr days at Goldman or 10 years of medical school, but want the pay? Come work 8 at and make the same pay without the intern and first years hazing by an alcoholic 45 y/o MD who hates their spouse and never goes home.

And then if I was to get pretty negative: Then, ~2020 hits, the cracks in the ideology show, no way to hide the data revenue models behind every nice Change the World pitch, turns out tech also shredded social discourse and now looks like it might unemploy Mom and friends, and maybe undue democracy (who saw that coming haha), and so on. VCs always win and you’re tired of reading their same think piece blog posts, layoffs always win, a lot of places that seemed the polar opposite still became IBM accidentally. Work, don’t work, it’ll be several quarters before that catches up to you. If you’re really introspective - why did I make $200k+ in my pajamas during COVID while someone made $15/hr at Whole Foods getting exposed to a pandemic all day long? Pretty sure people in that position actually got very sick… but HelloFresh kept getting delivered so I didn’t realize.

The shine has worn off. That is all imo. Place that are both really changing the world, actually understand the second order effects and plan for those, and you can get hired at are few and far between. It’s still/just an industry where you can make a ton of money and keep your brain curious.