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Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

foundalis.com

21–30 of 117 posts

Re: Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

#21
The author's attitude that very few Americans are "intelligent, mature," and "[respect] life deeply" impeach his opinions on both logic and geopolitical topics as far as I'm concerned:

> It is typically Americans who display this attitude regarding hi-tech weapons. (If you are an American and are reading this, what I wrote doesn’t imply that you necessarily display this attitude; note the word “typically”, please.) The American culture has an eerily childish approach toward weapons, and also some outlandish (but also child-like) disregard for human life. (Once again, you might be an intelligent, mature American, respecting life deeply; it is your average compatriot I am talking about.)

Re: Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

#22
post #4

Quick note: There's a not quite safe for work image near the bottom of the article (Topless tribal woman)

If you're upset about the topless happy healthy woman and not about the scenes of disfigured war victims above it, there's something wrong with you as a human.

If you're willing to impress a tortured reading onto his innocuous (and correct!) comment just so that you can make a statement about society's views, there's something wrong with you as a human.

Re: Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

#23
post #13

If I read it right, he has stopped working on a form of artificial intelligence because it could potentially (or inevitably) be used to create androids indistinguishable from humans that are carrying nuclear or biological payloads inside of them, presumably to be detonated in a densely populated area. Taking as a given, like he does, that the advancement and spread of technology are inevitable, wouldn't it still be m…

Isaac Asimov wrote a pretty good story about this. The plot is described on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lets_Get_Together_(short_story)

That gives away the ending, so if you like Asimov and might want to read the story, beware.

Re: Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

#24
post #13

If I read it right, he has stopped working on a form of artificial intelligence because it could potentially (or inevitably) be used to create androids indistinguishable from humans that are carrying nuclear or biological payloads inside of them, presumably to be detonated in a densely populated area. Taking as a given, like he does, that the advancement and spread of technology are inevitable, wouldn't it still be m…

The whole posting appears to lie somewhere between an immature rant and a publicity stunt. A suitcase would both elicit less suspicion and always (?) be easier/cheaper to design/develop/purchase/deploy than a humanoid robot.

A hundred years from now, it will probably be trivial to set up X-ray scanners (or whatever they will be using) to secure most urban areas from entering by humanoid robots; much more difficult to do so with suitcases, cars, and trucks which people have to bring with them for business, otherwise urban centers would not exist in the first place.

Re: Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

#26
They’re in the remote possibility of building intelligent machines that act, and even appear, as humans. If this is achieved, eventually intelligent weapons of mass destruction will be built, without doubt.

We already have those. There are plenty of people willing to blow themselves up and take a bunch of others with them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosive_belt

As a non-American from a constitutionally neutral country, I think this is the equivalent of having people traveling in front of trains with red flags. There are any number of ways to disguise a devastating weapon or deliver it undisguised, and evil is not a mere by-product of technical incapacity.

Re: Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

#27
I think the most credible concern this post mentions is the general disregard in the United States (especially among those in charge of the military) for the long term implications of the indiscriminate use of A.I.-based warfare. Drones seem great for the U.S. now: they make it easier to kill enemies and don't directly endanger American lives. But in a decade or two when "enemy" nations start to develop them too, things get a whole lot more complicated.

Nonetheless, I think the general stance of the article is severely flawed. We cannot halt research in computer cognition because it has the potential to be weaponized (and dangerously so). As the author himself mentions, it would be akin to halting the development of the knife because people can use it to stab each other, or the development of the Internet because it makes it easier for criminals to communicate and organize.

Avoiding a potential advance in technology by doing things like cutting funding to it, and hoping it will go away as a result, is never the solution to potentially dangerous development. One cannot stop the inexorable march of progress by "making a statement." The approach with greater value is to call out the dangers that the potential advance poses (as the post has done), and then work to develop an ethical framework for which the new technology can more safely exist.

The Singularity Institute has raised awareness of this broader issue in the past, as have several others, and is promoting the creation of "Friendly A.I." [1] to help address the problem.

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_AI

See also this recent article: http://www.economist.com/node/21556234

Re: Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

#28
post #13

If I read it right, he has stopped working on a form of artificial intelligence because it could potentially (or inevitably) be used to create androids indistinguishable from humans that are carrying nuclear or biological payloads inside of them, presumably to be detonated in a densely populated area. Taking as a given, like he does, that the advancement and spread of technology are inevitable, wouldn't it still be m…

Humans don't carry nukes because fissile material is _heavy_. Add onto that the shielding to make sure the person can even carry it without becoming gravely ill very shortly into their delivery and the fact a suitcase nuke or dirty bomb has never been personally delivered is not very surprising.

The ridiculous part is that making an android carry this payload doesn't change the nature of the payload. Heavy, fissile material will still give off signatures that will trip all manner of alarms.

Re: Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

#29
post #15

> “So where does the air vehicle called the Predator [i.e., a flying robot] fit? It is unmanned, and impressive. In 2002, in Yemen, one run by the CIA came up behind an SUV full of al-Qaeda leaders and successfully fired a Hellfire missile, leaving a large smoking crater where the vehicle used to be.” > Yes, just as you read it: a number of human beings were turned to smoke and smithereens, and this pathetic journali…

You are very right to question the interpretation of the subhuman argument. If someone has not been shot at or genuinely afraid for the life at the hands of another human being, it is very idealistic to say that the conversion of humans to subhumans by combatants is petty. As someone who has been shot at and shot back, the reduction of an unquestionably hostile enemy to subhuman is very normal if not necessary for most members of a military, on both sides of a conflict. People that judge the hatred of religiously motivated enemies are both naive and living in walled gardens.

The fact that the OP can morally object to participating in the research is the perfect definition of ideology inside a protected environment. If he had ever needed a gun, for example, to save his life, he would not question the morality of the creator, until he was once again safe from those that threatened him. I say until because people that question the need for violence have never experienced true hatred of violence. IMEO.

Re: Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

#30
post #19
post #13

If I read it right, he has stopped working on a form of artificial intelligence because it could potentially (or inevitably) be used to create androids indistinguishable from humans that are carrying nuclear or biological payloads inside of them, presumably to be detonated in a densely populated area. Taking as a given, like he does, that the advancement and spread of technology are inevitable, wouldn't it still be m…

Yes, I'm wondering if is satirical. It keeps on approaching serious points only to jump into a strangely particular and extreme aspect of them.

Yeah I was struck by that too, although I didn't pick up on anything that seemed overtly satirical.

None of the arguments he made directly supported the conclusions he jumped to. I agree that there are serious ethical concerns pertaining to AI research that ought to be thoroughly examined, but I fail to see how any of these arguments actually support that thesis.

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