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Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

foundalis.com

11–20 of 117 posts

Re: Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

#11
Pardon me but ... I think that there are way worse dangers than "humanoid bombs"... One of the main reason is that to achieve a nuclear explosion you need to have a critical mass and the it's hard to conceal for a lot of reasons (radiation etc...).

What's the difference with a car that could have a bomb in its trunk? Or a bag? A lot of scientists have wondered about these ethical questions but I believe that the benefits of high performance IA outweights the downsides of its research.

BUT I definitively agree with that:

"Americans should grow up and abandon their juvenile-minded treatment of weapons, high technology, and the value of “non-American human life” (which, sadly, to many of them is synonymous with “lowlife”). This is the hardest part of my proposal."

*edit: And what about an android to dismantle the atomic bomb instead of humans ? Sounds good to me!

Re: Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

#12
post #4

Quick note: There's a not quite safe for work image near the bottom of the article (Topless tribal woman)

If you're upset about the topless happy healthy woman and not about the scenes of disfigured war victims above it, there's something wrong with you as a human.

And yet current culture has more issues with the topless woman being shown in the media then disfigured victims.

I can understand the original warning, even though I think personally that its crazy I should be worried at work about viewing the topless tribal woman but not worried about the victims. In this I think our society is sick.

Re: Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

#13
If I read it right, he has stopped working on a form of artificial intelligence because it could potentially (or inevitably) be used to create androids indistinguishable from humans that are carrying nuclear or biological payloads inside of them, presumably to be detonated in a densely populated area.

Taking as a given, like he does, that the advancement and spread of technology are inevitable, wouldn't it still be many times more likely that people would just detonate suitcase nukes themselves before they decide to hide them in expensive and and potentially problematic robots? There's surely no shortage of people willing to die to do that, and even if there were it's unlikely that setting a bomb on a half hour timer and getting out of dodge will affect the success rate.

That frankly ridiculous scenario aside, I can imagine much more likely applications that computers capable of solving Bongard problems (which sound pretty cool) could be used in war, like automated drones that are able to independently identify targets.

Re: Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

#14

Pardon me but ... I think that there are way worse dangers than "humanoid bombs"... One of the main reason is that to achieve a nuclear explosion you need to have a critical mass and the it's hard to conceal for a lot of reasons (radiation etc...). What's the difference with a car that could have a bomb in its trunk? Or a bag? A lot of scientists have wondered about these ethical questions but I believe that the bene…

Maybe I'm just naive but it seems to me like in a world where the power of the atom bomb can fit in a briefcase, theres no need for androids to get bombs within striking range of their intended targets.

Re: Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

#15
> “So where does the air vehicle called the Predator [i.e., a flying robot] fit? It is unmanned, and impressive. In 2002, in Yemen, one run by the CIA came up behind an SUV full of al-Qaeda leaders and successfully fired a Hellfire missile, leaving a large smoking crater where the vehicle used to be.”

> Yes, just as you read it: a number of human beings were turned to smoke and smithereens, and this pathetic journalist, whoever he is, speaking with the mentality of a 10-year-old who blows up his toy soldiers, reports in cold blood how people were turned to ashes by his favorite (“impressive”, yeah) military toys. Of course, for overgrown pre-teens like him, the SUV was not full of human beings, but of “al-Qaeda leaders” (as if he knew their ranks), of terrorists, sub-humans who aren’t worthy of living, who don’t have mothers to be devastated by their loss. Thinking of the enemy as subhuman scum to be obliterated without second thoughts was a typical attitude displayed by Nazis against Jews (and others) in World War II.

That's... quite a string of logic. He seems to know an awful lot about the mental process of that journalist.

As a critique of his general point: good general AI is dangerous (and useful) in so many ways I don't see why he focuses so narrowly on humanoid carriers of weapons of mass destruction - hell we already have those.

Re: Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

#16
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're upset about the topless happy healthy woman and not about the scenes of disfigured war victims above it, there's something wrong with you as a human.

Yes, if only we could pay the bills with naive idealism.

You can rather easily, if it is written well and marketed properly.

Re: Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

#18
Excessively specific adjective: The average human has no particular regard for the life of the Other. An open-eyed view of both history and the world around you reveals that in spades. Calling out what we usually call the civilized world for not caring about the life of the Other is a major, major lamppost argument. The idea that one should care about someone else 10,000 miles away of another color and completely different culture is a striking and unusual attitude in human affairs.

(Since we ourselves are human it can be easy to blip over the historical manifestations of these facts as just part of the natural order of things ourselves. So, as one exercise if you have trouble understanding what I mean on a gut level, consider the stocks [1]. Consider what it means that in the middle of what was at the time the height of civilization and the genesis of our own in the western world, these things not only existed, but were in public places. And used. I can not truly internalize this, only observe it. And consider how often you've seen these and never thought about what they actually mean about the culture they appear in, if you never have before. For those not of western civilizational descent you can find your own examples; they are abundant in all cultures.)

Of course, actual examination and comprehension of this state of affairs won't necessarily leave you more confident about the likely outcomes.... but it may make you reconsider the validity of letting someone else beat you to the research anyhow. Your influence towards humane usage is maximized by being on the cutting edge, not just being some guy over there yelling.

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stocks

Re: Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

#19
post #13

If I read it right, he has stopped working on a form of artificial intelligence because it could potentially (or inevitably) be used to create androids indistinguishable from humans that are carrying nuclear or biological payloads inside of them, presumably to be detonated in a densely populated area. Taking as a given, like he does, that the advancement and spread of technology are inevitable, wouldn't it still be m…

Yes, I'm wondering if is satirical. It keeps on approaching serious points only to jump into a strangely particular and extreme aspect of them.

Re: Why I stopped working on the Bongard Problems

#20
post #13

If I read it right, he has stopped working on a form of artificial intelligence because it could potentially (or inevitably) be used to create androids indistinguishable from humans that are carrying nuclear or biological payloads inside of them, presumably to be detonated in a densely populated area. Taking as a given, like he does, that the advancement and spread of technology are inevitable, wouldn't it still be m…

> "So, though now I have started working again in cognition (but in isolation), I can’t avoid seeing the problem coming."

Quoted from just above the heading: "What can be done?"

It appears that he continues to work on the simulation of human cognition.

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