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Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

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Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#101
post #11
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and are the biggest country in Europe Err, what? #6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_...

I'm sure he meant by population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_... Russia and Türkiye are partly in Asia, so not really completely European

France, Portugal, Spain, UK, Netherlands, Denmark too are partially located outside Europe.

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#102
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't live in Germany and this is all based on accounts I have seen posted in HN. Everytime there is a post that journals the process to setup a startup in Germany or do other business functions, it always included something that needed to be faxed.

FAX is still a leaglly accepted way to send official papers, e.g. to courts. As is paper mail. True. One can so easily set-up a company without it so. 90% of what you read about companies and how to run and set them up im Germany on HN is wrong.

I work for a large German company and some of our suppliers and business partners have had a fax machine for a long time that they used exclusively for our purposes.

Fortunately, these times are over, and the company has celebrated the long overdue abolition of the fax machine ;-)

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#103

Germany is weird. They talk a lot about green, but sabotage and protest against Tesla factory, because 'reasons'. While being perfectly ok with Coal strip mining. The mine is on the site of the ancient Hambach Forest, which was purchased by RWE in 1978. The company then cut most of the forest down and cleared it to mine. Only 10% of the forest area remains: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hambach_surface_mine https://w…

Perfectly ok? The protests against cutting down the Hambach forest were among the fiercest environmental protests in German history, activists camped out in the forest for years and it took hundreds of policemen to resolve that situation, one person died in an accident and the media covered this for many months. And to be frank electric cars don’t solve the climate crisis, right now they’re little more than expensive…

> And to be frank electric cars don’t solve the climate crisis, right now they’re little more than expensive toys for the affluent, it’s cool to drive around in a Tesla but don’t believe you save the planet doing that.

Tesla's current range doesn't go low enough to replace all vehicles, but transport is one of the single largest greenhouse gas sources — electric vehicles may not be sufficient, but it certainly is a necessary part of solving climate change, given the scale of the problem.

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perfectly ok? The protests against cutting down the Hambach forest were among the fiercest environmental protests in German history, activists camped out in the forest for years and it took hundreds of policemen to resolve that situation, one person died in an accident and the media covered this for many months. And to be frank electric cars don’t solve the climate crisis, right now they’re little more than expensive…

> And to be frank electric cars don’t solve the climate crisis If governments were serious about climate change they would invest heavier in public transport, not greener cars (which are only greener to drive, but definitely not manufacture).

If there was real seriousness. We would ban all sort of current sized cars and move everyone to slower, smaller and lighter cars... Less material and less energy expenditure in general. Same thing should happen to housing... If anyone was actually serious about whole process.

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#105

Germany is weird. They talk a lot about green, but sabotage and protest against Tesla factory, because 'reasons'. While being perfectly ok with Coal strip mining. The mine is on the site of the ancient Hambach Forest, which was purchased by RWE in 1978. The company then cut most of the forest down and cleared it to mine. Only 10% of the forest area remains: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hambach_surface_mine https://w…

[deleted]

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#106

It's not too surprising. Yes, Germany is slow to adapt to new tech, but they are a car manufacturing powerhouse and are the biggest country in Europe. The whole country is in an everlasting debate about its dependency on car manufacturing, and cars are _very_ important. It would be surprising if they weren't no 1 producer (and probably consumer) in Europe.

I once took a tour through the VW HQ's manufacturing plant in Wolfsburg.

Those buildings are incredible, some packed full with robots all squeezed into the smallest possible space. Videos on YouTube [0] give you an impression of what it looks like, but being there, seeing and hearing all those machines, is yaw-dropping.

For those who have the opportunity to go, go! People like to go to museums to look at paintings and the like, this is no different, but you get to see what modern production can look like at its peak.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD-ibWKi2J8&t=205

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#107
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really surprising. EVs (both foreign and domestic) haven't caught up in price and range as fast as expected since the proposal was originally made, for EVs to be a drop-in replacement for ICE cars the voting population can afford and drives to work everyday and on vacation in the south of Europe every summer. And neither is the EV charging infrastructure already there to support the same use cases. And since…

Is range seriously a problem for someone in Europe? US I kinda get it, superchargers help but they’re not perfect, but in europe?

>Is range seriously a problem for someone in Europe? US I kinda get it, superchargers help but they’re not perfect, but in europe?

For a lot of people yeah. The cars isn't just for trips to work and the supermarket (which sometimes can be done by foot, public transport or bicycle), but that same car is used for vacation trips in summer and winter with the whole family.

You can call it an edge case, but edge cases matter to car owners if they can only afford one car per household. Also, a lot of people in the EU work in one country but have family in another and commute by care quite often. Charging speed and infra density isn't there to suport these cases.

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#108
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then we would have to deal with expensive and problematic nuclear. It's much more efficient to scale renewable energy, then deploy old technology like current nuclear powerplants, which are extremely costly with lots of unsolved problems. If you look at the countries which deploy nuclear, they have/use mostly government run industries. That's not our goal. Germany also has no nuclear weapons, where other countrie…

nuclear doesn't have unsolved problems. It's only problem is the cost. We already know how to operate the plants, how to safely store the waste or reprocess it to reuse multiple times, how to solidify the waste - all of this is already known, the question is if govt's want to spend the money now for this infra to get the prices down in the future and reduce the build times like China did

I would also add that all these solutions are financed in the bill.

Once a panel or blade reaches the end of its life, it is no one's responsibility to have to recycle it. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-turb...

Nuclear power is the only source that solves all the "problems" on the bill.

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#109
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really surprising. EVs (both foreign and domestic) haven't caught up in price and range as fast as expected since the proposal was originally made, for EVs to be a drop-in replacement for ICE cars the voting population can afford and drives to work everyday and on vacation in the south of Europe every summer. And neither is the EV charging infrastructure already there to support the same use cases. And since…

Is range seriously a problem for someone in Europe? US I kinda get it, superchargers help but they’re not perfect, but in europe?

Maybe not range per se, but there are a couple of Europe-specific things that make EVs less attractive. First, many people live in apartment buildings and park their cars on the street, with no charging facilities. So they'd have to make that supercharger trip pretty often. Second, on any given Saturday in July and August there will be millions of people driving for vacation (1000+ km not being uncommon), mostly to the Mediterranean or back to their country of origin (Eastern Europe, Balkans, Turkey). In this period I've already ended up queuing for 10-15 minutes for gas - I can imagine it would be worse without chargers. Also, people who take their car to the poorer European countries often do it because of poor public transport infrastructure there, so the likely poorer EV infrastructure there would play somewhat of a role as well (though likely minor).

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#110
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is range seriously a problem for someone in Europe? US I kinda get it, superchargers help but they’re not perfect, but in europe?

If you dig a bit you’ll find studies that show things like “95% of vehicles are driven less than per day” So no, I don’t think range is a huge issue, and fast charging infra is a lot better in EU than US in my experience. Price though - it’s a tall order to expect everyone to buy EVs when the low cost options are so much higher than the low cost gasoline options. I can see how that would make politicians nervous

> Price though - it’s a tall order to expect everyone to buy EVs when the low cost options are so much higher than the low cost gasoline options. I can see how that would make politicians nervous

100%. Honestly, I hope that we use this opportunity to improve public transit in Europe a lot more than it already is done.

Both:

1. Better bike lanes, everywhere, well maintained throughout seasons with good government subsidies on ebikes.

2. Public transit density and focus on lowering wait on connections. Basically, look at what Switzerland has done and try to copy it.

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