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Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

electrek.co

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Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#81

Post by KingOfCoders »

luoc wrote: post #73
thelastgallon wrote: post #63

Germany is weird. They talk a lot about green, but sabotage and protest against Tesla factory, because 'reasons'. While being perfectly ok with Coal strip mining. The mine is on the site of the ancient Hambach Forest, which was purchased by RWE in 1978. The company then cut most of the forest down and cleared it to mine. Only 10% of the forest area remains: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hambach_surface_mine https://w…

Turns out more than one opinion exist here ;)

Ja die Tage der Gleichschaltung sind glücklicherweise vorbei.

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#82

Post by epolanski »

thelastgallon wrote: post #63

Germany is weird. They talk a lot about green, but sabotage and protest against Tesla factory, because 'reasons'. While being perfectly ok with Coal strip mining. The mine is on the site of the ancient Hambach Forest, which was purchased by RWE in 1978. The company then cut most of the forest down and cleared it to mine. Only 10% of the forest area remains: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hambach_surface_mine https://w…

1) There's 80 million germans, some hold different opinions.

2) The 'reasons' are real, the factory is Grunheide is dumping all their wastewater into the water system, it's literally ending up in people's homes. As you can imagine, Musk thinks he can just wrestle and bend opposition, so they keep denying and refusing to fix the issue and create an appropriate waste system. Tribunals are slow in Germany, that doesn't help. Also, Tesla has required to expand the factory and take down 250 acres of forest, another thing that is disliked.

3) Agree on your coal criticism.

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#83

Post by FrancisMoodie »

thelastgallon wrote: post #63

Germany is weird. They talk a lot about green, but sabotage and protest against Tesla factory, because 'reasons'. While being perfectly ok with Coal strip mining. The mine is on the site of the ancient Hambach Forest, which was purchased by RWE in 1978. The company then cut most of the forest down and cleared it to mine. Only 10% of the forest area remains: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hambach_surface_mine https://w…

AFAIK the protest surrounding the tesla factory were more related to the horrendous work culture that is present at tesla and the amount of pollution that has reportedly been found dumped by tesla factories. 'Because reasons' seem to imply that allowing a tesla plant to be constructed in your country is a resounding net-positive for that country but I think Germany was correct in assessing that the "tesla mindset" isn't completely in line with (West-)European ideals.

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#84

Post by brabel »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #36
probably_wrong wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is surprising to me, though, seeing as Germany was the country responsible for undercutting the ban [1] on sales of new combustion engine cars in the EU after 2035. It is wild to me that they would block such an important deal knowing that they are already ahead of everyone else. [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/24/cars/eu-combustion-engine...

It's not really surprising. EVs (both foreign and domestic) haven't caught up in price and range as fast as expected since the proposal was originally made, for EVs to be a drop-in replacement for ICE cars the voting population can afford and drives to work everyday and on vacation in the south of Europe every summer. And neither is the EV charging infrastructure already there to support the same use cases. And since…

The problem is prices. People want to buy EVs but they cost nearly twice as much as conventional cars, it's crazy expensive (which to me smells like racket by the car companies, China has been doing it much cheaper and from what I hear, which good quality too)... it's a bit more competitive in some countries where the government give really high bonus for people buying EVs (Sweden was giving like 50,000 SEK bonus for each EV which was just enough to make it affordable for the richer people, but without that bonus only taxi drivers, environmentally friendly people who believe EVs are really great for the environment - despite their manufacturing being less than green - and people who drive a lot and can save a lot on fuel can justify going for EVs - and as a result EV sales fell for the first time in decades last year).

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#85

Post by Moldoteck »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #36
probably_wrong wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is surprising to me, though, seeing as Germany was the country responsible for undercutting the ban [1] on sales of new combustion engine cars in the EU after 2035. It is wild to me that they would block such an important deal knowing that they are already ahead of everyone else. [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/24/cars/eu-combustion-engine...

It's not really surprising. EVs (both foreign and domestic) haven't caught up in price and range as fast as expected since the proposal was originally made, for EVs to be a drop-in replacement for ICE cars the voting population can afford and drives to work everyday and on vacation in the south of Europe every summer. And neither is the EV charging infrastructure already there to support the same use cases. And since…

it's not just that. EV's are simpler and a lot of knowledge about making ice cars is not transferable to ev, meaning if germany accepts this, a lot of ppl will remain out of their jobs there

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#86

Post by LtVodka »

Moldoteck wrote: post #79
leononame wrote: post #2

It's not too surprising. Yes, Germany is slow to adapt to new tech, but they are a car manufacturing powerhouse and are the biggest country in Europe. The whole country is in an everlasting debate about its dependency on car manufacturing, and cars are _very_ important. It would be surprising if they weren't no 1 producer (and probably consumer) in Europe.

fyi the biggest country in europe is afaik ukraine, your point holds if we talk about eu in europe to ignore france's external territories

its not.

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#88

Post by ttyyzz »

throwaway63467 wrote: post #74
thelastgallon wrote: post #63

Germany is weird. They talk a lot about green, but sabotage and protest against Tesla factory, because 'reasons'. While being perfectly ok with Coal strip mining. The mine is on the site of the ancient Hambach Forest, which was purchased by RWE in 1978. The company then cut most of the forest down and cleared it to mine. Only 10% of the forest area remains: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hambach_surface_mine https://w…

Perfectly ok? The protests against cutting down the Hambach forest were among the fiercest environmental protests in German history, activists camped out in the forest for years and it took hundreds of policemen to resolve that situation, one person died in an accident and the media covered this for many months. And to be frank electric cars don’t solve the climate crisis, right now they’re little more than expensive…

With "Perfectly ok" I think the commenter meant that the German Politics contradicts itself with its decisions, e.g. We want to become “greener” aka climate neutral in the long term and at the same time we are reopening coal-fired power plants because we need the energy in the short term.

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#89

Post by Moldoteck »

aaomidi wrote: post #60
Rinzler89 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really surprising. EVs (both foreign and domestic) haven't caught up in price and range as fast as expected since the proposal was originally made, for EVs to be a drop-in replacement for ICE cars the voting population can afford and drives to work everyday and on vacation in the south of Europe every summer. And neither is the EV charging infrastructure already there to support the same use cases. And since…

Is range seriously a problem for someone in Europe? US I kinda get it, superchargers help but they’re not perfect, but in europe?

depends, in terms of territory us is big, but you don't randomly travel east to west coast just like you don't randomly travel portugal to estonia. Most car trips in both us and eu are pretty small and can easily fit current ev range for most ppl/cars

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#90

Post by Moldoteck »

LtVodka wrote: post #86
Moldoteck wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fyi the biggest country in europe is afaik ukraine, your point holds if we talk about eu in europe to ignore france's external territories

its not.

maybe you can explain?)
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