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Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

electrek.co

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Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#31

Post by probably_wrong »

leononame wrote: post #2

It's not too surprising. Yes, Germany is slow to adapt to new tech, but they are a car manufacturing powerhouse and are the biggest country in Europe. The whole country is in an everlasting debate about its dependency on car manufacturing, and cars are _very_ important. It would be surprising if they weren't no 1 producer (and probably consumer) in Europe.

It is surprising to me, though, seeing as Germany was the country responsible for undercutting the ban [1] on sales of new combustion engine cars in the EU after 2035. It is wild to me that they would block such an important deal knowing that they are already ahead of everyone else.

[1] https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/24/cars/eu-combustion-engine...

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#32

Post by polycaster »

leononame wrote: post #19
lispm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, Germany is slow to adapt to new tech Like renewable energy? 1st quarter 2024: 58,4% electricity from renewable energy. Up from 48.5% last year.

Sure, renewable _electricity_ is up. But up alone is not enough. When talking energy, you should use gross energy, including e.g. transport. Take this chart [0] from wikipedia [1]. Doesn't look too amazing. Now, being a gross exporter, the numbers are obviously skewed, but I didn't really mean EVs or electrical production specifically. German bureaucracy famously still runs on fax and emails are printed, there are lo…

I'm not sure where this fax myth originates. I've been living in Germany for most of my life, and I'm no longer in my thirties. During this time, I have sent a total of zero faxes. I can't even remember anyone ever asking me to send one.

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#33

Post by lispm »

madspindel wrote: post #30
oblio wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany FUBARed this like you wouldn't believe, those responsible will probably be branded traitors decades after the fact, primarily Schroeder (now a Gazprom shill) but probably also Merkel for not doing anything to change the status quo. Up until 2011 or so Germany was a leader in solar and wind power equipment production. Then they cut off subsidies and it took AN ENTIRE DECADE to get back where they were, in term…

And they are sabotaging the power production in Sweden too: "Germany begs for electricity from Sweden – while simultaneously blocking nuclear power" https://www.tn.se/naringsliv/37243/tyskland-tigger-el-fran-s...

I would prefer to move to cheaper new tech.

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#34

Post by Herz »

lispm wrote: post #25
mytailorisrich wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electricity generation is still 25% coal. Germany's emissions per capita are very high compared to, say, France, because their electricity production is still actually very dirty. France's electricity production has been very low-emissions for decades because of nuclear and hydro. There's a lot of spin about renewables in Germany but overall this is a failed energy policy. (Edited)

23% coal, 28.2% less than last year. Renewable energy is hugely increasing world wide.

It would be even less and even faster decline of coal with nuclear

But for Germany the priorities were other than decarbonization.

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#35

Post by kstenerud »

leononame wrote: post #12
toenail wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and are the biggest country in Europe Err, what? #6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_...

Where I'm from, when you say "biggest" country, it's by default population unless specified otherwise. Area really isn't an important metric here (unless your country is tiny), because the ability of economic and industrial output scales with population more than with area. The most logical comparison would be by GDP here, because we're comparing economy. But for population, which is what I think about when specifyin…

Also, colloquially Europeans consider Russia to be an uncivilized backwater, so they don't count. Turkey is considered more middle-east.

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#36

Post by Rinzler89 »

probably_wrong wrote: post #31
leononame wrote: post #2

It's not too surprising. Yes, Germany is slow to adapt to new tech, but they are a car manufacturing powerhouse and are the biggest country in Europe. The whole country is in an everlasting debate about its dependency on car manufacturing, and cars are _very_ important. It would be surprising if they weren't no 1 producer (and probably consumer) in Europe.

It is surprising to me, though, seeing as Germany was the country responsible for undercutting the ban [1] on sales of new combustion engine cars in the EU after 2035. It is wild to me that they would block such an important deal knowing that they are already ahead of everyone else. [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/24/cars/eu-combustion-engine...

It's not really surprising. EVs (both foreign and domestic) haven't caught up in price and range as fast as expected since the proposal was originally made, for EVs to be a drop-in replacement for ICE cars the voting population can afford and drives to work everyday and on vacation in the south of Europe every summer.

And neither is the EV charging infrastructure already there to support the same use cases. And since there's no sign we'll be there in 10 years, then a lot of voters will be pissed that they'll be priced out of car ownership when the future they were promised didn't pan out.

I'm already betting the deadline will be extended past 2035 as we get closer to it.

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#37

Post by kjksf »

This is not the news that informs.

I can't tell from the article if they count Tesla's Berlin factory as "German assembly line".

If not, the article should say that.

If yes, to say that "Germany’s automakers manufactured" 1 million EVs is misleading given that around 25% of that was Tesla's Model Y.

Tesla has a factory in Germany but it's a stretch to call it a German automaker, just like Toyota has factories in Mexico but we don't call it Mexican company.

Either way, to namecheck Volkswagen or BMW but not Tesla is just bizarre.

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#38

Post by jangxx »

polycaster wrote: post #32
leononame wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, renewable _electricity_ is up. But up alone is not enough. When talking energy, you should use gross energy, including e.g. transport. Take this chart [0] from wikipedia [1]. Doesn't look too amazing. Now, being a gross exporter, the numbers are obviously skewed, but I didn't really mean EVs or electrical production specifically. German bureaucracy famously still runs on fax and emails are printed, there are lo…

I'm not sure where this fax myth originates. I've been living in Germany for most of my life, and I'm no longer in my thirties. During this time, I have sent a total of zero faxes. I can't even remember anyone ever asking me to send one.

Then you clearly don't work in healthcare or law.

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#39

Post by mensetmanusman »

kjksf wrote: post #37

This is not the news that informs. I can't tell from the article if they count Tesla's Berlin factory as "German assembly line". If not, the article should say that. If yes, to say that "Germany’s automakers manufactured" 1 million EVs is misleading given that around 25% of that was Tesla's Model Y. Tesla has a factory in Germany but it's a stretch to call it a German automaker, just like Toyota has factories in Mexi…

The people are the automakers, not the brand behind it.

Re: Germany is No 1 in Europe for EV production, No 2 in the world

#40

Post by infecto »

probably_wrong wrote: post #31
leononame wrote: post #2

It's not too surprising. Yes, Germany is slow to adapt to new tech, but they are a car manufacturing powerhouse and are the biggest country in Europe. The whole country is in an everlasting debate about its dependency on car manufacturing, and cars are _very_ important. It would be surprising if they weren't no 1 producer (and probably consumer) in Europe.

It is surprising to me, though, seeing as Germany was the country responsible for undercutting the ban [1] on sales of new combustion engine cars in the EU after 2035. It is wild to me that they would block such an important deal knowing that they are already ahead of everyone else. [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/24/cars/eu-combustion-engine...

I am not sure a decade is enough time and after the energy crisis in the EU with the Ukraine conflict, I am not sure its smart to back yourself into a corner.
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