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Anti-Cheat Expert: all your pixels are belong to us

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Re: Anti-Cheat Expert: all your pixels are belong to us

#41

Post by devman0 »

MenhirMike wrote: post #29
cortesoft wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a fan of anti cheats, but I do like to play video games online and I want to be able to play fair games without cheaters. I am not sure what other options there are.

> I am not sure what other options there are. Unironically, Cloud gaming. Stadia had a terrible business model, but the tech worked. Microsoft's XCloud together with GamePass could be a winning ticket for that. (I think there's also GeForce Now) Of course, that wouldn't prevent anyone from capturing the screen, running image recognition software on the screen and sending USB Controller inputs to create an Aim Bot, bu…

That aimbot would be significantly harder to implement than current ones though, the good aimbots are not generally scanning the framebuffer for heads to click, they are using the game data directly. If they do use frame scanning, it's usually with the aid of a texture swap, which also wouldn't be possible here.

Re: Anti-Cheat Expert: all your pixels are belong to us

#42

Post by eikenberry »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #31
shrimp_emoji wrote: post #13

A perk of gamimg on Linux is that none of these invasive anti-cheats work. I consider that a plus since I never care enough about a video game to surrender my privacy or my kernel over to it.

How is that a plus? It's the same as just not playing the games with anticheat.

It means you don't have to figure it out, the platform tells you whether it works or not.

Re: Anti-Cheat Expert: all your pixels are belong to us

#43

Post by Joel_Mckay »

Terr_ wrote: post #20
Joel_Mckay wrote: post #18

Nothing ruins the fun faster than lag-switching lamers. Accordingly, one can never trust client side security enforcement, or you just create a tit-for-tat economy with cheat-code authors. The better solution is often live admins with a cheat-report button, server-side physics reconciliation trip-wires/audits (no time-travelers), and using clipped areas for character buffering (x-ray vision attempts floods buffers an…

Some chunk of the problem comes from companies trying to avoid spending money on dedicated+good servers, and choosing business models that are hostile to the idea of players banding together to subsidize their own little institutions.

I think it is more of a fools errand to cost-optimize into a "cloud", as by its very design the lag gets worse with high concurrency loads.

There are better solutions, but as you stated they are not cheap or easy to monetize. =)

Re: Anti-Cheat Expert: all your pixels are belong to us

#44

Post by ndriscoll »

senectus1 wrote: post #37
ndriscoll wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't you blame them? They should at least provide an option to turn it off like games used to. It looks like it's a co-op game; if you're playing with your friends/family why do you need anti-cheat?

no self hosted servers otherwise yeah, like 7 days to die I'd just turn it off.

Why do you need self hosted servers? Most looter shooters are p2p in game, right? Either way, you just need a filter to allow matching with other people that have anti cheat off. Or at least allow private groups in that mode.

Re: Anti-Cheat Expert: all your pixels are belong to us

#45

Post by Joel_Mckay »

skizm wrote: post #38
Joel_Mckay wrote: post #18

Nothing ruins the fun faster than lag-switching lamers. Accordingly, one can never trust client side security enforcement, or you just create a tit-for-tat economy with cheat-code authors. The better solution is often live admins with a cheat-report button, server-side physics reconciliation trip-wires/audits (no time-travelers), and using clipped areas for character buffering (x-ray vision attempts floods buffers an…

> The better solution is often live admins “Admin! He’s doing it sideways!”

Well, I assure you most people are not trained to do Pirouettes in a battle field when they get shot at...

Now there's gonna be a guy that does this specifically just to prove us wrong... lol =)

Re: Anti-Cheat Expert: all your pixels are belong to us

#46

Post by phonepostingsux »

maximus-decimus wrote: post #36
hypeatei wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would definitely stop most cheating but at a huge cost: performance. You're not running on bare metal anymore and that would be a non-starter for competitive games.

Is it really a problem is all competitors have the same performance hit?

For an FPS? Completely unplayable. Wouldn't be surprised if nausea became a widespread issue - vsync is enough to get me there, let alone network lag on mouse input.

Re: Anti-Cheat Expert: all your pixels are belong to us

#47

Post by eddd-ddde »

hypeatei wrote: post #26

I know there's nothing that can or will happen about it (for various reasons) but the whole model around multiplayer games is flawed. You're giving someone code to run on their PC and hoping your anti-cheat code can catch their code doing bad things. I believe there are AI anti-cheats being developed and used in China so maybe we'll end up with a Recall-esque anti-cheat everywhere in the future :)

Just today I was thinking about the theory of making untrusted hardware run trusted software.

Imagine all the things that would be possible. Truly decentralised servers, where the end user can run server side logic.

Re: Anti-Cheat Expert: all your pixels are belong to us

#48

Post by senectus1 »

ndriscoll wrote: post #44
senectus1 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no self hosted servers otherwise yeah, like 7 days to die I'd just turn it off.

Why do you need self hosted servers? Most looter shooters are p2p in game, right? Either way, you just need a filter to allow matching with other people that have anti cheat off. Or at least allow private groups in that mode.

its been a while but from memory the EAC is mandatory. you cant launch or play without anti cheat. its not an option.

Re: Anti-Cheat Expert: all your pixels are belong to us

#49

Post by eikenberry »

nemothekid wrote: post #35
Joel_Mckay wrote: post #18

Nothing ruins the fun faster than lag-switching lamers. Accordingly, one can never trust client side security enforcement, or you just create a tit-for-tat economy with cheat-code authors. The better solution is often live admins with a cheat-report button, server-side physics reconciliation trip-wires/audits (no time-travelers), and using clipped areas for character buffering (x-ray vision attempts floods buffers an…

> The better solution is often live admins with a cheat-report button, server-side physics reconciliation trip-wires/audits (no time-travelers), and using clipped areas for character buffering (x-ray vision attempts floods buffers and crashes the client.) A lot of these mitigations are table stakes, even cs1.6 had server-side physics reconciliation. Aimbots are a type of cheat that cannot be detected by the above and…

Isn't a solution to this to frame the game around communities of some sort, teams, parties, squads, bands or whatever. Basically a group you can trust. You can then play with them without worry of cheating. This works best for co-op games but some competitive games could be modeled in a way to make this work.

Re: Anti-Cheat Expert: all your pixels are belong to us

#50

Post by bjc »

BearOso wrote: post #7

The screenshot function pointed in the article out will only be able to take screenshots on older versions of Windows with no compositor, i.e. the ones that draw directly to the scan-out framebuffer. That's why he found it's not used anywhere--it's obsolete.

not true, BitBlt is still able to access screen content on Win10 & 11
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