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OpenAI and Apple Announce Partnership

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Re: OpenAI and Apple Announce Partnership

#81

Post by mistersquid »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #63
talldayo wrote: post #2

> The ChatGPT integration, powered by GPT-4o , will come to iOS, iPadOS, and macOS later this year. Jensen Huang must be having the time of his life right now. Nvidia's relationship with Apple went from pariah to prodigal son, real fast.

Not sure Nvidia is too happy with Apple. They are the first ones to ship on-device inference at scale on non-nvidia hardware. Apple also has the means to build data center training hardware using apple silicon if they want to do so. If they are serious about the OAI partnership they could also start to supply them with cloud inference hardware and strongarm them into only using apple servers to serve iOS requests.

> Apple also has the means to build data center training hardware using apple silicon if they want to do so.

> If they are serious about the OAI partnership they could also start to supply them with cloud inference hardware and strongarm them into only using apple servers to serve iOS requests

Apple addressed both these points in today’s preso.

1. They will send requests that require larger contexts to their own Apple Silicon-based servers that will provide Apple devices a new product platform called Private Cloud Compute.

2. Apple’s OS generative AI request APIs won’t even talk to cloud compute resources that do not attest to infrastructure that has a publicly available privacy audit.

Re: OpenAI and Apple Announce Partnership

#82

Post by astrange »

philsnow wrote: post #75

~~This is not the direction I was hoping Apple would go with AI. With all the neural this and that bits baked into apple silicon, it has seemed [0] for a while that Apple wanted to run all these workloads locally, but this partnership seems like a significant privacy backslide. Another comment in this thread said something about they’re using b Apple silicon for these workloads, but didn’t give an indication of wheth…

Watch the keynote, it's all clearly explained and you don't need to learn about it from HN comments.

Re: OpenAI and Apple Announce Partnership

#83

Post by romeros »

Ancapistani wrote: post #33
blueelephanttea wrote: post #24

IMO this really feels like the Facebook / Twitter integration from early iOS. That only lasted a few years. Apple clearly thinks it needs a dedicated LLM service atm. But still thinks it is only supplemental as they handle a bunch of the core stuff without it. And require explicit user consent to use OpenAI. And Apple clearly views it as a partial commodity since they even said they plan to add others. Tough to bet a…

My gut says that it's a stopgap solution to implement the experience they want. I think Apple's ultimate goal is to move as much of the AI functionality as possible on-device.

yup.. and thats good for the consumers as well because they don't have to worry about their private data sitting on open ai servers.

Re: OpenAI and Apple Announce Partnership

#84

Post by Workaccount2 »

croes wrote: post #18
Whatarethese wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChatGPT will only be invoked if on device and apple intelligence servers cant handle request.

To be useful Apple has to share the data with OpenAI

I can only imagine Apple has some kind of siloing agreement with OpenAI, Apple can easily afford whatever price to do so.

Re: OpenAI and Apple Announce Partnership

#85

Post by RodgerTheGreat »

wg0 wrote: post #52
blueelephanttea wrote: post #24

IMO this really feels like the Facebook / Twitter integration from early iOS. That only lasted a few years. Apple clearly thinks it needs a dedicated LLM service atm. But still thinks it is only supplemental as they handle a bunch of the core stuff without it. And require explicit user consent to use OpenAI. And Apple clearly views it as a partial commodity since they even said they plan to add others. Tough to bet a…

Actually, just in three to five years, lots of "AI boxes" and those magical sparkling icons next to input fields summoning AI would be silently removed. LLMs are not accurate, they aren't subject matter experts that'll be maybe within 5% error margin. People will gradually learn and discover anf the cost of keeping a model updated and running won't drastically reduce so we'll most likely see dust settling down.

I truly hope the reckless enthusiasm for LLMs will cool down, but it seems plausible that discretized, compressed versions of today's cutting-edge models will eventually be able to run entirely locally, even on mobile devices; there are no guarantees that they'll get better, but many promising opportunities to get the same unreliable results faster and with less power consumption. Once the models run on-device, there's less of a financial motivation to pull the plug, so we could be stuck with them in one form or another for the long haul.

Re: OpenAI and Apple Announce Partnership

#87

Post by rgrmrts »

daft_pink wrote: post #53

From watching it, it seems like it’s just a kit type integration as it’s super clear that it’s going to a partner and they said they may allow other partners.

I really hope so. I don’t trust OpenAI and I’d really rather not have any integrations with them on any of my devices.

Re: OpenAI and Apple Announce Partnership

#88

Post by KeplerBoy »

whimsicalism wrote: post #69
KeplerBoy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure Nvidia is too happy with Apple. They are the first ones to ship on-device inference at scale on non-nvidia hardware. Apple also has the means to build data center training hardware using apple silicon if they want to do so. If they are serious about the OAI partnership they could also start to supply them with cloud inference hardware and strongarm them into only using apple servers to serve iOS requests.

> Apple also has the means to build data center training hardware using apple silicon if they want to do so. i'm seeing people all over this thread saying stuff like that, it reads like fantasyland to me. Apple doesn't have the talent or the chips or suppliers or really any of the capabilities to do this, where are people getting it from?

Apple is already one of the largest (if not the largest) customers of TSMC and they have plenty of experience designing some of the best chips on the most modern nodes.

Their ability to design a chip and networking fabric which is fast/efficient at training a narrow set of model architecture is not far fetched by any means.

Re: OpenAI and Apple Announce Partnership

#89

Post by talldayo »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #63
talldayo wrote: post #2

> The ChatGPT integration, powered by GPT-4o , will come to iOS, iPadOS, and macOS later this year. Jensen Huang must be having the time of his life right now. Nvidia's relationship with Apple went from pariah to prodigal son, real fast.

Not sure Nvidia is too happy with Apple. They are the first ones to ship on-device inference at scale on non-nvidia hardware. Apple also has the means to build data center training hardware using apple silicon if they want to do so. If they are serious about the OAI partnership they could also start to supply them with cloud inference hardware and strongarm them into only using apple servers to serve iOS requests.

> They are the first ones to ship on-device inference at scale on non-nvidia hardware

Which is neat, but it's not CUDA. It's an application-specific accelerator good at a small subset of operations, controlled by a high-level library the industry is unfamiliar with and too underpowered to run LLMs or image generators. The NPU is a novelty, and today's presentation more-or-less confirmed how useless it is for rich local-only operations.

> Apple also has the means to build data center training hardware using apple silicon if they want to do so.

They could, but that's not a competitor against an NVL72 with hundreds of terabytes of unified GPU memory. And then they would need a CUDA competitor, which could either mean reviving OpenCL's rotting corpse, adopting Tensorflow/Pytorch like a sane and well-reasoned company, or reinventing the wheel with an extra library/Accelerate Framework/MPS solution that nobody knows about and has to convert models to use.

So they can make servers, but Xserve showed us pretty clearly that you can lead a sysadmin to MacOS but you can't make them use it.

> they could also start to supply them with cloud inference hardware and strongarm them into only using apple servers to serve iOS requests.

I wonder how much money they would lose doing that, over just using the industry-standard Nvidia servers. Once you factor in the margins they would have made selling those chips as consumer systems, it's probably in the tens-of-millions.

Re: OpenAI and Apple Announce Partnership

#90

Post by anvuong »

0xWTF wrote: post #39
talldayo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, good luck to Apple then. Hopefully this attempt at killing Nvidia goes better than the first time they tried, or when they tried and gave-up on making OpenCL. I just don't understand how they can compete on their own merits without purpose-built silicon; the M2 Ultra doesn't shine a candle to a single GB200. Once you consider how Nvidia's offerings are networked with Mellanox and CUDA universal memory, it feels…

S&P 500 average P:E - 20 to 25 NASDAQ average P:E - 31 NVidia's P:E - 71 That's a market of 1 vendor. That's ripe for attack.

It's ripe for attack. But Nvidia is still in its growing phase, not some incumbent behemoth. The way Nvidia ruthlessly handled AMD tell us that they are ready for competition.
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