Microsoft Bans Linux/Android Dual-Booting on Windows 8 ARM Devices • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Bans Linux/Android Dual-Booting on Windows 8 ARM Devices

#41

Post by brudgers » Mon, Jun 04, 2012, 12:35 PM UTC

air wrote: post #38

brudgers wrote: post #26

[edit] The article is from January[/edit] Topic discussed previously on Hacker News: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3458679 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3567448 Upshot: If you don't care that your hardware is certified, you don't have to implement secure boot in the way Microsoft requires for certification. You will probably have a few technical challenges, however.

"Upshot: If you don't care that your hardware is certified, you don't have to implement secure boot in the way Microsoft requires for certification." No, upshot is that for ARM you can't get Windows at all (certified or not) if you allow other operating systems to boot.

Windows certification is not necessarily the same as Windows licensing, and given the history, that is likely to remain the case.

The article conflates the two: "a document that regulates licensing (certification) (pg. 116): "

But Microsoft is clear: "The new Windows Hardware Certification Program (formerly known as the Windows Logo program) makes it easier to certify your hardware for Windows 8. Use the requirements to build and certify your Windows-compatible devices, systems, and filter drivers across all Windows platforms."

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/hh7...

Re: Microsoft Bans Linux/Android Dual-Booting on Windows 8 ARM Devices

#42

Post by brudgers » Mon, Jun 04, 2012, 12:36 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #35

brudgers wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is about ARM devices, not x86.

Apple makes their own devices. Microsoft is forcing OEMs who would allow dual booting to restrict user choice because they'd rather not compete.

Apple's devices are ARM (that's how ARM works, by licensing designs rather than fabricating chips like Intel).

Re: Microsoft Bans Linux/Android Dual-Booting on Windows 8 ARM Devices

#43

Post by c0un7d0wn » Mon, Jun 04, 2012, 12:37 PM UTC

Just when we hear chromeos and android about to become one

Re: Microsoft Bans Linux/Android Dual-Booting on Windows 8 ARM Devices

#44

Post by tjoff » Mon, Jun 04, 2012, 12:38 PM UTC

wavephorm wrote: post #5

It only increases the subsection of hardware I won't buy. Thanks for making my choice easy.

What subsection of hardware do you buy?

Re: Microsoft Bans Linux/Android Dual-Booting on Windows 8 ARM Devices

#45

Post by chucknelson » Mon, Jun 04, 2012, 12:44 PM UTC

beedogs wrote: post #39

ivanbernat wrote: post #8

I've said this before and I'll say it again: Microsoft isn't doing this to ban Ubuntu / Linux in general, but to prevent Android from spreading. With ICS being a great OS, many (tech) folks would simply dual-boot ICS on their WinRT devices.

But those people will just figure out a way to do that anyway. I don't see the point in these decisions to expend likely a lot of time, effort, and money eliminating edge cases.

You never know, if Microsoft allowed it that could open the door to marketing and such that could lead to Win8+Android tablets being mainstream or something.

Not that it would be likely, but I'm sure Microsoft would want to stave off any chance of that happening in the early days of the platform.

Re: Microsoft Bans Linux/Android Dual-Booting on Windows 8 ARM Devices

#46

Post by DrJokepu » Mon, Jun 04, 2012, 12:47 PM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #42

rbanffy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple makes their own devices. Microsoft is forcing OEMs who would allow dual booting to restrict user choice because they'd rather not compete.

Apple's devices are ARM (that's how ARM works, by licensing designs rather than fabricating chips like Intel).

Implementation detail. Apple sells iPhones, not ARM-based phones. They don't mention "ARM" anywhere in iPhone marketing materials.

Re: Microsoft Bans Linux/Android Dual-Booting on Windows 8 ARM Devices

#47

Post by brudgers » Mon, Jun 04, 2012, 12:48 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #34

polshaw wrote: post #3

Along with their apparent restriction of the 'desktop' on arm, this is the reason I lost interest in windows8 on arm. So far a linux + android solution (like ubuntu have demonstrated) seems more powerful and very will also have more apps to start (way to go throw away windows' advantage #1). It seems quite short-sighted, too, as I see ARM as being a viable laptop platform in the life of windows 8, but MS are restrict…

Windows already had no advantage - all programs would need to be rebuilt for the new platform. That's what killed Windows NT on everything non-x86. The only apps that will be cross-platform will be WinRT/Metro based ones.

Metro is a set of UI guidelines, not a set of programming tools. Applications built using the Silverlight Framework (not to be confused with the browser plugin) should be suitable for cross platform development because CLR runs on both platforms. CLR remains Microsoft's way of integrating the "write once, run anywhere" philosophy within the Windows ecosystem in order to deal with legacy issues.

Re: Microsoft Bans Linux/Android Dual-Booting on Windows 8 ARM Devices

#48

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jun 04, 2012, 12:51 PM UTC

ivanbernat wrote: post #8

I've said this before and I'll say it again: Microsoft isn't doing this to ban Ubuntu / Linux in general, but to prevent Android from spreading. With ICS being a great OS, many (tech) folks would simply dual-boot ICS on their WinRT devices.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft Bans Linux/Android Dual-Booting on Windows 8 ARM Devices

#49

Post by novalis » Mon, Jun 04, 2012, 12:54 PM UTC

The really troubling part of this is UEFI being used as a strong arm scam that depends on MS good will... how did things get to this point. On another point, they can "ban" whatever they want. They also didn't support Windows Phone 7 or allow Android and Ubuntu on my old trusty HTC HD2 and look at it go. Plus, it is just like saying to a child that she cannot have the piece of cake in front of her, if it looks tasty it's going to be munched. Meaning, if the hardware will be good someone somewhere is going to shoe horn it independent of what MS wants.

Re: Microsoft Bans Linux/Android Dual-Booting on Windows 8 ARM Devices

#50

Post by air » Mon, Jun 04, 2012, 12:58 PM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #41

air wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Upshot: If you don't care that your hardware is certified, you don't have to implement secure boot in the way Microsoft requires for certification." No, upshot is that for ARM you can't get Windows at all (certified or not) if you allow other operating systems to boot.

Windows certification is not necessarily the same as Windows licensing, and given the history, that is likely to remain the case. The article conflates the two: "a document that regulates licensing (certification) (pg. 116): " But Microsoft is clear: "The new Windows Hardware Certification Program (formerly known as the Windows Logo program) makes it easier to certify your hardware for Windows 8. Use the requirements…

Considering that WOA will not be sold separately and how MS touts tight integration with hardware, I'd be willing to make a bet that consumers won't be able to buy an ARM device with WOA that can boot to Linux (without exploits).

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/02/09/building-windo...

"Partners will provide WOA PCs as integrated, end-to-end products that include hardware, firmware, and Windows on ARM software. Windows on ARM software will not be sold or distributed independent of a new WOA PC, just as you would expect from a consumer electronics device that relies on unique and integrated pairings of hardware and software"