Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

writingruxandrabio.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

461–470 of 505 posts

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#461

Post by senordevnyc »

cbozeman wrote: post #357
bsder wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "You're out of your depth." Except most of the time ... they are not. Most non-junior WNs learn to have significant respect for those doing the work . The Weird Nerd judges based upon objectively observed behavior rather than social cues or group opinions. Mostly, the Weird Nerd gets in trouble because they simply aren't fooled. And that pisses of corporatocrats like you worse than anything else. The WN can see tha…

> And that pisses of corporatocrats like you worse than anything else. Congratulations, you've shown you don't know how the world actually works. This is called "Weird Nerd" but it really means, "Someone who can't operate within society and thus is forced to suffer because they'll do the hard work of building or designing something, but won't do the hard work of understanding human beings." First, go learn how the wo…

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” -George Bernard Shaw

The pragmatist in me is sympathetic to your viewpoint here. But the article in question is making the point that when Weird Nerds have to "figure out how to operate within the system", they actually lose their ability to get something worthwhile done. That still might be the optimal path for them to take as individuals, given the incentives they face, but maybe as a society, we'd be better off trying to design the system so that it could better tolerate the "downsides" of the Weird Nerd so they can maximize their ability to get something worthwhile done.

Obviously this is a balancing act (as the article points out), but the author is making the point that some environments (like academia) have swung too far in the direction of conformity, which seems to me to usually be presented using the exact language you're using here.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#462

Post by _yb2s »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #454
_yb2s wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many types of neurodiversity. I am arguing that being very introverted is itself fairly rare, and a type of neurodiversity- however not at all rare among the HN crowd. I would think it goes without saying that the HN crowd is a lot more neurodivergent than the general population. I'm not sure why people are so upset about this suggestion... I'm not sure if they just disagree, or if they don't like being lab…

It's not about neurodivergence. Being interested in something for its own sake beyond an "average" interest is extremely typical. Our brains are wired to incentivize this interest via the delivery of pleasurable feelings, determination, and motivation. These experiences shape our personality and inform future higher-than-average interests. This is a good feedback cycle, and not something to be lumped together with ot…

Obviously everyone is interested in things, but it is a matter of degree. Being extremely deeply passionate about something, especially if it is something really unpopular and obscure but complex and time consuming that has no real social or other benefits, is not common among neurotypical people. However, for example, I have ADHD and hyperfocus on niche hobbies and interests where I can barely think about anything else, sometimes for months.

From my observations, most extroverted and otherwise neurotypical people don't have obsessive interests they pursue deeply entirely on their own. When they have hobbies they enjoy a lot it is often the social community around the hobby as much as anything else that is motivating them to stick with the hobby.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#463

Post by walt_grata »

antisthenes wrote: post #207
walt_grata wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I duno on some of that. Until I was about 39 I was a "weird nerd" and then my wife (Dr of special education) finally convinced me to talk to a Dr and get get tested for autism. Turns out I'm ASD 1, would have been Asperger's in the past. Autism has a very wide range of ways it shows itself.

> my wife (Dr of special education) finally convinced me to talk to a Dr and get get tested for autism. Turns out I'm ASD 1, would have been Asperger's in the past. Can I ask candidly, what did you gain from knowing this? Presumably this didn't have much effect on you, since you seem to be fairly successful - finding a partner and getting married and presumably also having a decent job. Seems kind of like a vanity va…

For me it helped change some of the approaches I take with my therapist. I also have sever clinical depression. It's also helped me relate to other people and understand why people have an easier time with seemingly basic things, like speaking to a group of people or just being at a table where multiple people are having conversations and I get overwhelmed and can't follow what's going on.

For instance, I spend a lot of time scripting conversations and I've found if I don't do this it will have a meaningful negative impact on my ability to communicate with people. Almost like if I don't practice setting up the path between a concept and the words, then when I need to talk to other people that connection doesn't exist and I just can't put things to words.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#464

Post by [deleted] »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #338
bsder wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "You're out of your depth." Except most of the time ... they are not. Most non-junior WNs learn to have significant respect for those doing the work . The Weird Nerd judges based upon objectively observed behavior rather than social cues or group opinions. Mostly, the Weird Nerd gets in trouble because they simply aren't fooled. And that pisses of corporatocrats like you worse than anything else. The WN can see tha…

I have been in a meeting where the weird nerd is saying "our company should completely ditch customer support phone lines and only use a chat service because I don't know anyone who wants to make a phone call". This company was a utility that had customers with every level of literacy and internet access. He was mindbogglingly wrong, because he had no idea there was information in the world that he hadn't come across…

[deleted]

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#465

Post by randomdata »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #338
bsder wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "You're out of your depth." Except most of the time ... they are not. Most non-junior WNs learn to have significant respect for those doing the work . The Weird Nerd judges based upon objectively observed behavior rather than social cues or group opinions. Mostly, the Weird Nerd gets in trouble because they simply aren't fooled. And that pisses of corporatocrats like you worse than anything else. The WN can see tha…

I have been in a meeting where the weird nerd is saying "our company should completely ditch customer support phone lines and only use a chat service because I don't know anyone who wants to make a phone call". This company was a utility that had customers with every level of literacy and internet access. He was mindbogglingly wrong, because he had no idea there was information in the world that he hadn't come across…

> He was mindbogglingly wrong

How do you know?

Studies already suggest that 9 out of 10 people prefer text communication with businesses. Of the remaining 10%, we have to establish that they:

1. Prefer the phone over other alternatives. Some may want face-to-face communication, for example.

2. Want to phone a utility in the first place. Preferring phone communication over other means does not imply that they want to communicate.

3. That the person of which you speak knows of them. Someone who really does want to phone a utility, but is not known by said person, would not meet the qualifications defined.

Unless you actually compiled a list of those he knows and surveyed them in a good faith standing, you can't know. The statistics are not in your favour, though. It is quite unlikely that he does know someone who wants to make a phone call to said utility. Perhaps your weird nerdiness has clouded seeing that?

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#466

Post by nonameiguess »

narag wrote: post #267
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually people with an uncle Rick don’t want to become like him and are actually more self aware.

People suffering uncle Rick, of course. But when it's some famous "difficult" person like Jobs or Gates, or in fiction like Doctor House, the version of them that we see is idealized. Actually this is the exact counterpoint of TFA: using the inexistent genius as an excuse for the trade-off. Imitating the genius is more difficult than just being a jerk.

House is an interesting example. He wasn't an asshole because of his genius. He was like that because of chronic pain. And I actually have experienced that myself due to degenerative disc disorder. It is definitely not something you want to emulate. It is actually pretty terrible feeling like your emotions happen only in extremes due to reasons you can't do anything about, being able to step outside of yourself after the fact and see that you are needlessly hurting people you care about, but even knowing that, you can't stop it from happening in the moment.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#467

Post by r-zip »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #184
myself248 wrote: post #163

I wish I had a source for it right now, but years ago I heard an anecdoate that Bell Labs had essentially dorms/hotels for scientists, where things like cooking and laundry were taken care of, so they could focus on their research. This had the effect of embracing those people who hadn't necessarily figured out how to be independent adults. As long as they were lucky enough to be identified and brilliant enough to be…

I don't think I believe that. Look at the top scientists of previous decades. They weren't incompetent idiot savants or man-children.

But they likely did have their wives do a lot of the domestic heavy lifting.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#468

Post by corinroyal »

intended wrote: post #370
corinroyal wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "He's abrupt," or "He's arrogant," ... "angry bastard." It sounds like those are totally fixable personality defects, yet here you are acting persecuted and making excuses. What if you didn't blame other people and instead took responsibility for your own off-putting behavior? I've worked with too many men who think they're too special to follow social etiquette, when they are actually just garden-variety jerks who…

Why did you write that? You come across as insensitive, and likely someone who hasn't put the effort to understand the comment and the context. It's far too easy to conclude that you aren't heeding your own advice. Was this some next level attempt to show what being a bully magnet looks like? I don't understand.

Is it bullying to suggest that a person take responsibility for their own lack of courtesy?

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#469

Post by tqi »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #365
tqi wrote: post #328

The idea that IQ and EQ are negatively correlated is dubious at best. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of "Weird Nerds" are not Katalin Karikós, and instead are simply difficult jerks who are not nearly as smart as they think they are. Hubris mixed with obstinance is a recipe for misanthropy. Also, the notion that the internet is a place where your outputs are judged solely on their merits, so that you…

Your last paragraph is interesting. When I think back about at Perl, Python, and Ruby, all of them have/had charismatic leaders -- Larry Wall, Guido van Rossum, and Yukihiro Matsumoto. This would help to explain part of the success of their programming languages. My guess: All three of them have high IQ and EQ. To be clear: I don't write this post to take anything away from the incredible accomplishments of those peo…

I think what this article misses is that for most real-world problems, there is a) not an objectively "right" or "best" solution (just varying degrees of partial solutions that are imperfect in different ways), and b) there are reasons to coalesce around a single solution. So it seems perfectly reasonable to me that individuals who are able to be "the most socially adept and organized manager" could rally a community around their solution.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#470

Post by [deleted] »

Yossarrian22 wrote: post #5

The author is missing a crucial pressure that pushes against weird nerds, the people that have to work underneath them. I’ve had to answer to a Weird Nerd when I was starting out in my field, it was the worst fucking experience of my life, and I’ve spent the years since warning people away from that person, their career and their contributions to their field have stagnated due to all the people like me that they burn…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN