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It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

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Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#111

Post by hnben »

konschubert wrote: post #58
JR1427 wrote: post #51

One thing that has helped me over the last two years is not watching or reading the news (I've haven't done social media in a decade). I know some people will think it is morally wrong of me to not be interested in the world and society. In fact, I used to think as much too, and thought myself terribly clever because I had an Economist subscription. The fact is that I _am_ interested in the world and society, but all…

If it helps you that’s good and I might do the same. But two things: a) this is a luxury you can afford because you live in a country where you can trust that your house isn’t going to explode tomorrow. b) If everybody did this, a) would quickly no longer be true…

> b) If everybody did this, a) would quickly no longer be true…

Maybe the spiral goes in the other direction: Because no one does, a) is not true. I.e. because many people are "keeping up with hour-by-hour events", your house may explode tomorrow. If everyone was living under a rock, your house would be safe.

Maybe there are two equilibriums. One equilibrium where everyone needs to know about current events because their houses may explode, and another equilibrium where everyone lives under a rock because their houses are save.

Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#112

Post by Spod_Gaju »

I am the OP. First, I am glad this post has gotten so much attention and traction.

But what if I told you I cured my mental illness at 58 years old, a serious case of Bipolar Disorder Schizoaffective Type that had me on Disability and in and out of psychiatric hospitals since I was in my early 30's?

What if I told you it was more than holistic but it was holistic thinking that helped me cure my disorder.

Will you all listen to me or write me off by saying that nothing I say is true because I had a mental illness? Will you be like my doctors who do not believe I am better? That I have no more mental illness along with all the neurological issues that came with it?

And what if I told you what I have discovered in myself can be applied not only to mental illness but to everything from Cancer to Alzheimer's to ME/CFS and Long COVID?

If there is one person here who will take the time and have a creative mind to understand what I am saying I will explain it?

Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#113

Post by Spod_Gaju »

huijzer wrote: post #45

I talk a lot to people who are training to become therapist, to PhD's in psychology, and read a lot of psychology papers. If there is one thing it's time for then it's for academia to get out of their ivory tower and face the real world. As Taleb puts it: “I will repeat the following until I am hoarse: it is contagion that determines the fate of a theory in social science, not its validity.” Or as Yarkoni & Westfall…

I 100% agree that it is dogma that inhibits the understanding and progression of treating human disorders. Take a look at Alzheimer's for example. They are still droning on and on about plaques as being the cause and despite trial after trial failing. The same is true in mental health. They were treating me with essentially the same medication they treated my mother with 50 years ago. 50 YEARS! No change! And yet every idea I approach them with they dismissed.

Glad to hear this voice from you.

Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#114

Post by Spod_Gaju »

xlii wrote: post #12

I agree, but on the other hand I don’t think anyone can do anything. I have a stake in treating ADHD but it’s difficult to even describe what ADHD is to a layperson. Describing the needs is almost impossible as different people have different needs and they often don’t align. What I’m sure of, though, is that “today” is very hostile to mental health. Some people have been focusing on microplastics, impact of drugs, u…

If you have a stake in curing ADHD we need to talk. I will send you an email soon.

Here is a teaser:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1624838/

The hypothesis

We propose that in ADHD, astrocyte function is insufficient, particularly in terms of its formation and supply of lactate. This insufficiency has implications both for performance and development: H1) In rapidly firing neurons there is deficient ATP production, slow restoration of ionic gradients across neuronal membranes and delayed neuronal firing; H2) In oligodendrocytes insufficient lactate supply impairs fatty acid synthesis and myelination of axons during development. These effects occur over vastly different time scales: those due to deficient ATP (H1) occur over milliseconds, whereas those due to deficient myelination (H2) occur over months and years. Collectively the neural outcomes of impaired astrocytic release of lactate manifest behaviourally as inefficient and inconsistent performance (variable response times across the lifespan, especially during activities that require sustained speeded responses and complex information processing).

Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#115

Post by smokel »

NotGMan wrote: post #78
smokel wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Diet is extremely underrated According to your comment, it is also extremely overrated. Diet is very complex, and the behaviours associated with it are very complex as well. It is very hard to tell causality from correlation in this context. If someone’s temporary mental problems are clearing up, there may be more room to improve eating habits, and if someone is riding a negative spiral, there might be just a littl…

>> but I sincerely doubt that reducing sugar intake will cure depression And yet you can find people whose depression went away after going low carb, search twitter and youtube.

Yes, but those anecdotes don't prove much, do they? I prefer to take my scientific input from peer reviewed papers, not Twitter or YouTube.

One random counterexample for your claim: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36584702/

Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#116

Post by shepherdjerred »

konschubert wrote: post #58
JR1427 wrote: post #51

One thing that has helped me over the last two years is not watching or reading the news (I've haven't done social media in a decade). I know some people will think it is morally wrong of me to not be interested in the world and society. In fact, I used to think as much too, and thought myself terribly clever because I had an Economist subscription. The fact is that I _am_ interested in the world and society, but all…

If it helps you that’s good and I might do the same. But two things: a) this is a luxury you can afford because you live in a country where you can trust that your house isn’t going to explode tomorrow. b) If everybody did this, a) would quickly no longer be true…

> b) If everybody did this, a) would quickly no longer be true…

Can you elaborate on why you think this?

Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#117

Post by tsobral »

zer00eyz wrote: post #61
tsobral wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. In the past few decades we changed completely how we are supposed to live. Our bodies and brains evolved and adapted through thousands and thousands of years. With plenty of outdoor activity, sunlight, bonding in close communities, quiet time to exercise creativity and arts, and specially, the lack of continuous stimuli and artificially induced anxiety and stress of modern world.

> In the past few decades we changed completely how we are supposed to live... outdoor activity, sunlight, bonding in close communities, quiet time It's more like 100 years for this division. > continuous stimuli and artificially induced anxiety and stress of modern world Is anxiety artificial? 400k years ago, humanity emerges. 40k years ago we finish raping and murdering the last of our close ancestors off the face…

Good point! I even think if the anxiety of being observed by a feral animal is the same, psychological and physiological speaking, of being summoned to the director office or waiting for the result of an exam. We live in a much better world today. Maybe our bears, lions and bandits look different now.

Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#118

Post by shepherdjerred »

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #103

It's easy to forget that science has found many conditions that affect the brain that, because science can easily treat or prevent them, we no longer consider to be mental health conditions. Off the top of my head, hookworm, syphilis, lead poisoning, various vitamin deficiencies, various prion diseases, thyroid diseases, sleep apnea, ergot poisoning, fetal alcohol syndrome... Sure, there are almost certainly many cas…

That's interesting. It kinda reminds me of the AI effect [0] in the sense that the goalpost for mental disorders is moved based on the physical causes we discover, and how we might consider the goalpost will be further shifted (in a good way) as our understanding increases.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_effect

Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#119

Post by shepherdjerred »

byvirtueoff wrote: post #26

It’s also incredibly difficult for people with mental health issues to simply get advice to try to “pull themselves up by the bootstraps” by improving their lifestyle when so much of their mind is working against them. Combine that with the fact that hyper individualism is a big factor for loneliness, (and social media is a poor man’s substitute for socializing) and with loneliness being one of the biggest factors in…

> What’s crazy is expecting people with poor mental health to just “fix themselves”. Some may be able to, while others will struggle with it their entire lives without proper support and societal guardrails.

What has helped me is realizing that the only person that can fix me is myself. Nobody is going to do it for you.

I realize that's very sucky advice, though, akin to saying "just don't be depressed"

Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#120

Post by srid »

> Mental health conditions are often caused by physiological imbalance that is socially constructed. Deficits in sleep, nutrition, exercise, introspection, and other pillars of good mental health do not occur in the vacuum, they are produced by how we live.

Yes. Asking someone to "exercise" or "eat better" is just addressing the symptoms. The underlying issue is stress (which is not always "socially constructed").

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