IOS 6: Higher Hanging Fruit • Hacker News Board

Re: IOS 6: Higher Hanging Fruit

#81

Post by wdr1 » Sun, Jun 03, 2012, 12:13 AM UTC

credo wrote: post #26

My wish is that Apple adds paid upgrades for apps in the app store. I'm now close to releasing a major upgrade for an iPhone app, but these upgrades aren't going to be sustainable for me without paid upgrades (I don't want the new features to be IAP features) In the long run, this will also benefit customers because paid-upgrades will help developers add more features to the app. Users who want the new features can p…

> My wish is that Apple adds paid upgrades for apps in the app store.

As a user, I very much like the current business model. I'm actually more willing to buy an app because I know won't be socked every X months with a fee to update.

It's a very transparent & easy to understand model.

I understand you, as the app creator, wanting to raise more revenue, but I would prefer that cost be front-loaded.

Re: IOS 6: Higher Hanging Fruit

#82

Post by christiangenco » Sun, Jun 03, 2012, 7:43 AM UTC

ZenPsycho wrote: post #68

christiangenco wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the solution to mobile file system management, then? Android has a lot going for it with its plug-and-play-esque filesystems: installed Dropbox? Now every app that uses the File API can save/load files from your Dropbox. On iOS each developer has to specifically implement each file service in each app - that's not the future.

no file system management. Or, put another way "We've invented this thing called an automobile" - "I don't get it, where do I attach my horses?"

But you still have "files" (or whatever you want to call them now) - how are they going to be managed? Borrowing the above example, if I'm composing an email I may want to bring in bits of data from several apps - a presentation, a picture, some formatted text, a geo location, etc. Doing this on an iPhone in a single email is currently impossible.

Re: IOS 6: Higher Hanging Fruit

#83

Post by ZenPsycho » Sun, Jun 03, 2012, 9:53 AM UTC

christiangenco wrote: post #82

ZenPsycho wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no file system management. Or, put another way "We've invented this thing called an automobile" - "I don't get it, where do I attach my horses?"

But you still have "files" (or whatever you want to call them now) - how are they going to be managed? Borrowing the above example, if I'm composing an email I may want to bring in bits of data from several apps - a presentation, a picture, some formatted text, a geo location, etc. Doing this on an iPhone in a single email is currently impossible.

Wouldn't you just use copy and paste?

Re: IOS 6: Higher Hanging Fruit

#84

Post by ZenPsycho » Sun, Jun 03, 2012, 12:04 PM UTC

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #78

ZenPsycho wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no file system management. Or, put another way "We've invented this thing called an automobile" - "I don't get it, where do I attach my horses?"

So how do I open files made in app A in B?

I know right, where's the hitch? Where DO I attach my horses?

Re: IOS 6: Higher Hanging Fruit

#85

Post by ZenPsycho » Sun, Jun 03, 2012, 12:06 PM UTC

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #77

drewblaisdell wrote: post #23

There is no way that Apple is going to add any sort of direct file access into iOS 6. This would completely undermine the work that they have done to get rid of the metaphor. That said, there is certainly a problem with how files interact with iOS, mainly when it comes to email. Bridging the gap between the non-mobile file world and the pseudo-fileless iOS is going to be tricky.

Could you explain what is the matter with the filesystem metaphor?

It is too complicated and abstract for ordinary people to understand, and it is spiced with a sense of inherent danger since critical system files cannot be modified without doing significant damage to the system- system files that are right there along your ordinary user files which are impossible to find unless you can remember what you named it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Humane_Interface

Re: IOS 6: Higher Hanging Fruit

#86

Post by MatthewPhillips » Sun, Jun 03, 2012, 2:50 PM UTC

ZenPsycho wrote: post #84

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do I open files made in app A in B?

I know right, where's the hitch? Where DO I attach my horses?

Are you suggesting that there is no need to have open file formats? No need to use more than 1 app on a single file?

Re: IOS 6: Higher Hanging Fruit

#87

Post by MatthewPhillips » Sun, Jun 03, 2012, 2:52 PM UTC

ZenPsycho wrote: post #85

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain what is the matter with the filesystem metaphor?

It is too complicated and abstract for ordinary people to understand, and it is spiced with a sense of inherent danger since critical system files cannot be modified without doing significant damage to the system- system files that are right there along your ordinary user files which are impossible to find unless you can remember what you named it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Humane_Interface

> It is too complicated and abstract for ordinary people to understand

Evidence?

> spiced with a sense of inherent danger since critical system files cannot be modified without doing significant damage to the system- system files that are right there along your ordinary user files

Not on any operating system released in nearly 10 years.

> impossible to find unless you can remember what you named it.

UX is a problem, but eliminating files just creates other, in my opinion much worse problems, namely that all "files" or "documents" are tied to one specific application.

Re: IOS 6: Higher Hanging Fruit

#88

Post by chrisbroadfoot » Sun, Jun 03, 2012, 2:54 PM UTC

tomflack wrote: post #12

While we're playing the speculation game... The ability to arrange home screens in shapes other than grids The Windows 8 Consumer Preview has shown me that the merits of arranging app icons in shapes are numerous. It's easier to find things. Likelihood: Low Sync galleries between devices via iCloud I love the Photo Stream. Photos I take on my phone show up on my iPad and I can select the good ones to make galleries f…

Apple actually bought three mapping companies :)

Re: IOS 6: Higher Hanging Fruit

#89

Post by ZenPsycho » Mon, Jun 04, 2012, 2:49 AM UTC

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #86

ZenPsycho wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know right, where's the hitch? Where DO I attach my horses?

Are you suggesting that there is no need to have open file formats? No need to use more than 1 app on a single file?

I'm saying that your reasoning about the problem is stuck on outdated metaphors, and your imagination may be irrevokably damaged. You are asking the wrong questions, and so the only possible answer is "mu" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_(negative)

Let me put this another way- Having to work with files is a problem which is caused by computers. It is not a problem that existed before computers which is now solved by them. There are LOTS of alternative metaphors that have been tried and written about and researched before which you can simply just go find out about if you ever decide to look into it. The reason none of these alternatives have been adopted widely is because the file system metaphore has just simply been too ingrained. iOS is now the first system that has half a chance of shedding the metaphor once and for all, and people whose minds have been damaged by experience with file systems now simply want to add it back in. What a tragedy.

Okay here's a freebee. Have you ever been working on a large paper, and you forget to "save" your "file", and your computer crashes and you lose your work? That is a clue to the problems with this metaphor.

Re: IOS 6: Higher Hanging Fruit

#90

Post by ZenPsycho » Mon, Jun 04, 2012, 2:53 AM UTC

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #87

ZenPsycho wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is too complicated and abstract for ordinary people to understand, and it is spiced with a sense of inherent danger since critical system files cannot be modified without doing significant damage to the system- system files that are right there along your ordinary user files which are impossible to find unless you can remember what you named it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Humane_Interface

> It is too complicated and abstract for ordinary people to understand Evidence? > spiced with a sense of inherent danger since critical system files cannot be modified without doing significant damage to the system- system files that are right there along your ordinary user files Not on any operating system released in nearly 10 years. > impossible to find unless you can remember what you named it. UX is a problem,…

The evidence for the file system problem can be found in pretty much any book about user interfaces, but I have already linked to one in the post you are replying to. But aside from any arbitrary book on the subject, the evidence is not hard to find. All you really have to do is watch a computer novice try to use a computer for any length of time.

I don't know what operating systems you are using, but My mac with the latest operating system still has a multiple "library" folders and a "system" folder. I presume windows 7 still has a windows folder, a program files folder, and documents and settings folders. Any unix type system has /usr /bin /var /etc . These things are so apparently ingrained it appears you are incapable of perceiving them.

as for your third point, this is what is called the fallacy of the false dichotomy or false dilemma. The solution for this is that there's more than just the 2 options you are imagining.