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Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

haaretz.com

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Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#711

Post by no_exit »

myth_drannon wrote: post #523
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But in general what strategy do you need? Take over, destroy the military infra and prevent smuggling. That's all that is needed. Gaza is thousand years back, it will never recover. It is not a threat anymore in any meaningful way. Impressively amoral post, but this is insanity. (1) Israel doesn't exist in a vacuum. It is not self-sufficient. (2) There's something monstrous about keeping 2M people herded up in a cl…

[flagged]

> So yes, antisemites and the mentally ill are loud on the streets and on the university campuses but they haven't won the hearts and the minds of people, and rightfully so.

Is that right?

> The survey found that 61% of the population opposes Israel's military action in the sealed-off Palestinian territory.

> Public support in Germany for Israel's military operations has dropped significantly, the survey shows.

> In November, shortly after the October 7 attacks, 62% favoured the Israeli military actions in Gaza, compared to 33% in the most recent survey, indicating a recent shift in public opinion almost eight months into the conflict.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/survey-majority-germans-oppose-is...

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#712

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

licebmi__at__ wrote: post #701
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Doesn't it strike you that there should be a moral dimension to this? I'm not endorsing the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians if that's what you mean. At the same time, you can say that Israel has lost peoples' hearts, that it goes against international law, that it's unhinged etc etc but none of those things will stop the people in power in Israel, who btw are textbook fascists who spit "peace" like a dirty word,…

I kinda agree with your position, but I don’t share your optimistic outlook regarding Israel fate if it loses US support. I think the Arab world is mostly at peace with Israel because of US support, and Russia/China are only thinly supporting other nations because US has such a large stronghold via Israel that make really little sense economically. If Israel loses US support, this calculation changes wildly, and I’m…

You're probably right that there would be a power struggle etc, if Israel simply unceremoniously dumped the US as a patron. I just think they would sound out the other great powers beforehand (at the risk of intelligence leaking that they are doing so, of course) so it would be a careful and calculated move, not a sudden jump. That's what I'd do if I was in their shoes, anyway.

The other thing to keep in mind is that Israel is a nuclear power and there are no others in the region (for now), so that, too, gives them some extra time and leverage.

I totally agree that all this is just hypothetical and I, too, am not convinced that Biden is going to take serious action on Netanyahu. I would think that he's royally pissed off at him, privately, though. Bibi has caused Biden no end of trouble and I think it's clear that if Biden lost the elections, Bibi would celebrate.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#713

Post by no_exit »

nsguy wrote: post #614
dragonwriter wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For what it's worth, the US has also tried to work a two-state solution over the last 30 years with various degrees of vigor. That became much harder to accomplish when the Gaza Strip decided to elect Hamas to lead its government in 2006-07. It became much harder when the Israeli hard Right murdered Yitzhak Rabin in 1995 and then took over the Israeli government with Netanyahu's election in 1996. Both fairly explic…

It's worth mentioning that Rabin's murder was almost certainly related/triggered to the wave of suicide bombing attacks by Hamas that came as a response to the peace process. The Israeli right was up in arms about how the peace process was leading to terrorism. I.e. the root cause of this was Palestinians, not Israelis.

> the wave of suicide bombing attacks by Hamas that came as a response to the peace process

The Hamas suicide bombings in 1994 were in response to the massacre committed by Jewish terrorist Baruch Goldstein in February. The first bombing of the "wave" happened in April.

[1]

> This was the first suicide bombing attack to be carried out by Palestinian militants against Israeli civilians in Israel, and was carried out in retaliation for the killing by a settler of 29 Muslims while they were at prayer in the Ibrahimi mosque in Hebron on 25 February.

> I.e. the root cause of this was Palestinians, not Israelis.

I.e. This is grossly disingenuous.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afula_Bus_suicide_bombing

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#714

Post by tptacek »

runarberg wrote: post #249
dang wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your account has continued to use HN primarily for political battle after we asked you recently to stop: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40519369 (May 2024) If you keep this up we're going to have to ban you, for reasons explained on many past occasions: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... . Edit for anyone concerned: yes, this principle applies regardless of which side of any politic…

I’m sorry, I did not mean for this comment to be a political point, but rather an observation on how technology is used in mass atrocities. I was hoping to raise a point which I find interesting, which other may or may not agree with. I’ve gotten a couple of excellent replies here raising interesting counterpoints. After posting this, and reading the replies, I’m actually less convinced about my original point. That…

One nerd to another, I'm rooting for you here, and just want to write a note real quickly that it's very easy to get sucked into this topic. The dopamine circuit we're playing with is a quirk of homo messageboardicus. A couple days ago I did a bunch of conscious things to keep me away from this topic on HN, and with a day or so of detox I've regained my original perspective that this is a deeply cursed species of HN thread. There's lots of other stuff to talk about!

I got very lucky, and the very next day someone started an argument about the futility and/or propriety of user-mode TCP/IP stacks and WireGuard. I wish for you a similarly irresistible nerd snipe for whatever nerd topic lights you up. Good luck!

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#715

Post by hehdhdjehehegwv »

Matl wrote: post #431
legolas2412 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA is not a real democracy either in your definition.

Correct.

I like how these people think the checkmate move is assume the person they’re talking to is a blind supporter of the USA for some reason, and have zero response when they realize that rationally applying the same rules to everybody really does mean Israel doesn’t pass the bar for a democracy.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#716

Post by fsagx »

muaytimbo wrote: post #592

So Israel does the exact thing all the politicians try to scare us into believing Russia does every election in the US. I guess the difference is AIPAC.

I'm waiting to see if the NY Times tells me I should be outraged by this.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#717

Post by bawolff »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #699
bawolff wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fortunately the vast majority of exploited peoples, Palestinian and otherwise, share a commonality with the vast majority of the rest of humanity; they don't want revenge or domination, It seems pretty hard to square this with the rhetoric and actions of Palestinian leadership, especially Hamas. Like if this was their goal, why are they so opposed to a two state solution? It seems like they could easily have had th…

Alongside the other comment, Hamas is far from popular in it's leadership position in Palestine. Probably something to do with the last election being in 2006. Saying it is representative of all Palestinians is a pretty tough reach.

I think you are confusing hamas with the PA. From what i understand, the reason that there have been no elections is because those who are de-jure in power know they would lose to hamas if an election was held.

Regardless, at some point it doesn't really matter how popular leadership is, only that, whether rightly or wrongly, they are in a position to give orders and have those orders obeyed.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#718

Post by bawolff »

SauciestGNU wrote: post #696
bawolff wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fortunately the vast majority of exploited peoples, Palestinian and otherwise, share a commonality with the vast majority of the rest of humanity; they don't want revenge or domination, It seems pretty hard to square this with the rhetoric and actions of Palestinian leadership, especially Hamas. Like if this was their goal, why are they so opposed to a two state solution? It seems like they could easily have had th…

The current Hamas charter calls for a 2 state solution with the internationally recognized 1967 borders. But what's written and what leadership would accept might be two different things.

Even what is written is kind of questionable and seems more like wanting it both ways, just look at the beginning of the wikipedia article on the topic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Hamas_charter

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#719

Post by bawolff »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #698
raxxorraxor wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are imagining propaganda but are spreading much of it yourself in my opinion. Israel exists because Jews were prosecuted. If there were reparations, it would be quite the sum going to Israel or Jews living in other countries.

> Israel exists because Jews were prosecuted. Israel exists because the West wanted a seat of military power in the Middle East. Just like America exists because various European powers wanted to exploit the Americas, until American leadership wanted to stop cutting them a slice. Just like Peurto Rico is directly under America's authority yet remains entirely unrepresented in it's government. Colonies all, of various…

> Israel exists because the West wanted a seat of military power in the Middle East

I think this is mixing up time periods. This doesn't make sense in the context of the 1940's/early 1950s.

Later on, sure. USA wanted a military base to counter soviets becoming buddy buddy with several of the Arab countries... typical cold war stuff. But i don't think that is historically accurate in the immediate post-war period. If for no other reason than at that point in time Israel would make a shitty military base.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#720

Post by runarberg »

tptacek wrote: post #714
runarberg wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry, I did not mean for this comment to be a political point, but rather an observation on how technology is used in mass atrocities. I was hoping to raise a point which I find interesting, which other may or may not agree with. I’ve gotten a couple of excellent replies here raising interesting counterpoints. After posting this, and reading the replies, I’m actually less convinced about my original point. That…

One nerd to another, I'm rooting for you here, and just want to write a note real quickly that it's very easy to get sucked into this topic. The dopamine circuit we're playing with is a quirk of homo messageboardicus. A couple days ago I did a bunch of conscious things to keep me away from this topic on HN, and with a day or so of detox I've regained my original perspective that this is a deeply cursed species of HN…

That would be cross browser support for MathML, or other tools to get math expressions typeset on the web. Those discussions only pop up like once every six months though.

I’m actually way more of a lurker here. There are e.g. once a month a submission about Bayesian Analysis (and a guaranteed once a year submission about Kalman Filters) which I religiously read but hardly ever contribute to (unless a frequentist is advocating for IQ tests or other psychometric devises; then I for sure contribute; but that can lead to flame-wars easily). Every so often there is a back end engineer with an “opinion” on the front end stack which I sometimes answer for, however that often be a flame-y subject, for some reason I’m less tempted to be sucked into flamewars when the subject is actually aligned with my expertise.

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