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Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

haaretz.com

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Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#691
post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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So did Beijing bomb the Uyghurs? Do you see Uyghurs anywhere cry for kins killed by bombs or houses destroyed? How can you compare China with Israel? Also, sure Uyghurs killed Hans in riots, and they sure have conducted terrorist attacks in China.

If china's goal is to wipe them out as a people, its more effective to do that quietly.

Having Uyghurs cry for their kins brings international attention. Having them slowly deported to camps and sterialized brings about the same result without that pesky international pressure.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#692
post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the (arguably) unequal focus only Israel's human rights record relative to other countries Two thoughts on this: Firstly, every time a country is getting criticized for it's human rights abuses it, like clockwork, raises the spectre of being "unjustly singled out" about it's human rights abuses. To be clear, I would very much like every country on earth that engages in human rights abuses prosecuted for it, includi…

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I feel like comparing just to china is an unconvincing argument.

I think a more reasonable argument would be number of resolutions relative to the behavior in question and the types of behavior that are criticized.

Israel has basically been condemed more times than all the other countries combined. At the same time while Israel is not perfect there are objectively much worse countries out there. There are countries ot there where citizens have no civil rights, there are countries where slavery is effectively still a thing, etc. It seems impossible to explain this disparity of attention except by politicization and bias.

Second the behavior criticized often seems quite minor compared to things in other countries the human rights council is silent about. For example, in 2018 Israel was condemed for allowing people in the golan heights to vote in municipal elections. The argument goes that since that should be syrian territory, its wrong to treat the people there like citizens. Without getting into the pros and cons of whether that is right or wrong, it seems crazy that given all the terrible human rights abuses in the world, extending voting rights to people is what the human rights council is trying to stop.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#693
post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> Isn't the US a colonialist project from its beginning? Isn't Canada? Isn't all of South and Central America? Australia? New Zealand? Jordan? Saudi Arabia? and the list go on. I mean, yes? And while in a better world we'd have proper solutions to that that would render unto these various peoples the land that was unjustly stolen from them, that is neither practical nor realistically achievable (undoing everything do…

You are imagining propaganda but are spreading much of it yourself in my opinion. Israel exists because Jews were prosecuted. If there were reparations, it would be quite the sum going to Israel or Jews living in other countries.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very interesting thing, it demonstrates something uncomfortable & scary to me as a goy Zionist, who hangs out in a private, predominantly Jewish, space. Note the biggest word in the cloud: UNRWA. All my confirmation bias was in one direction in October. The oddly dissonant and desperate messaging you'd see made things extremely difficult to maintain that, like, you have to be of a very specific mindset to see…

* Assuming the comments came from Israelis/Jews. All the left and right-wing channels are infiltrated with Iranian agents(plenty of news on that topic in Haaretz/Walla). They are causing rift and radicalization in society. That's a solvable tech problem to shut it down. Unfortunately, it's not a priority on a state level because everyone is doing it.

The cure for that is worse than the disease. And I think foreign agents manipulating public opinion abroad are vastly overestimated.

Propaganda is still very prevalent and the target group is rarely someone other than the domestic population, even in democracies.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best part is when it comes from our own "newspaper of record" i.e. with the extraordinarily dubious "mass rape" article the NYT published. They finally dismissed the one Israel-connected reporter who had liked tweets calling for a brutal response against Gaza, but that of course has seen about one billionth the attention that her original claims continue to receive. You also get stuff like the POTUS repeating lie…

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/06/world/middleeast/israel-g... That is currently the NYT headline - How can you call it Israeli propaganda is beyond me.

What if I told you modern forms of propaganda are more sophisticated than the mere blunt force repetition of a single obvious and consistent message? When is the NYT willing to stretch truth and credulity, and when is it not? What is the likely net effect of a world-weary, cynical (and false) both-sidesism as applied to the Israel/Palestine war?

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't the US a colonialist project from its beginning? Isn't Canada? Isn't all of South and Central America? Australia? New Zealand? Jordan? Saudi Arabia? and the list go on. I mean, yes? And while in a better world we'd have proper solutions to that that would render unto these various peoples the land that was unjustly stolen from them, that is neither practical nor realistically achievable (undoing everything do…

> Fortunately the vast majority of exploited peoples, Palestinian and otherwise, share a commonality with the vast majority of the rest of humanity; they don't want revenge or domination, It seems pretty hard to square this with the rhetoric and actions of Palestinian leadership, especially Hamas. Like if this was their goal, why are they so opposed to a two state solution? It seems like they could easily have had th…

The current Hamas charter calls for a 2 state solution with the internationally recognized 1967 borders. But what's written and what leadership would accept might be two different things.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that Russia has "interfered" with US politics that has been released by the US government in the last 10 years adds up to (...) So you acknowledge that it's quite clear that Russia indeed is systematically interfering, and your only claim is to call "what about" some other country?

No, I acknowledge that some interference by Russia and other countries is likely but not clear, since no clear evidence has ever been publicly offered. The only public evidence of clear, systemic, long-standing and ongoing interference we have is that of Israel.

But what about Donald Trump's conspiracy with Russia? Or the Russian Hunter Biden laptop disinformation op? Or the Russian spy whale?

Oh whoops I guess you're right, all of those were lies about Russian perpetuated by US govt and media.

Side note: Russia has an economy the size of TX. Are they really wasting all of their money convincing Americans which octogenarian to "rule"?

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't the US a colonialist project from its beginning? Isn't Canada? Isn't all of South and Central America? Australia? New Zealand? Jordan? Saudi Arabia? and the list go on. I mean, yes? And while in a better world we'd have proper solutions to that that would render unto these various peoples the land that was unjustly stolen from them, that is neither practical nor realistically achievable (undoing everything do…

You are imagining propaganda but are spreading much of it yourself in my opinion. Israel exists because Jews were prosecuted. If there were reparations, it would be quite the sum going to Israel or Jews living in other countries.

> Israel exists because Jews were prosecuted.

Israel exists because the West wanted a seat of military power in the Middle East. Just like America exists because various European powers wanted to exploit the Americas, until American leadership wanted to stop cutting them a slice. Just like Peurto Rico is directly under America's authority yet remains entirely unrepresented in it's government. Colonies all, of various justifications.

We exist in a world built by colonialism, by exploitation, who's foundations are lousy with the bones of cultures we dominated, some to extinction.

The idea that Jews needed a nation of their own after the Holocaust was debated at the time and remains so to this day, especially since the nation that was created is now engaged in it's own genocide. However there was no reason at all Israel HAD to be in the Middle East, apart from the fact that none of the colonial powers that worked to create it felt the urge to carve away their own land from themselves, and felt quite comfortable taking it from a bunch of nations who had zero say in the process.

I don't know if a Jewish state was needed or not, I'm not educated enough on the subject to have an opinion, but I know it was far from a consensus, and irrespective of how you want to slice that particular issue, the fact remains the powers that be at the time who were responsible for Israel's creation did not do it on land that was there's to give, but instead on other's. And said other's have had pretty understandable tension with Israel ever since.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't the US a colonialist project from its beginning? Isn't Canada? Isn't all of South and Central America? Australia? New Zealand? Jordan? Saudi Arabia? and the list go on. I mean, yes? And while in a better world we'd have proper solutions to that that would render unto these various peoples the land that was unjustly stolen from them, that is neither practical nor realistically achievable (undoing everything do…

> Fortunately the vast majority of exploited peoples, Palestinian and otherwise, share a commonality with the vast majority of the rest of humanity; they don't want revenge or domination, It seems pretty hard to square this with the rhetoric and actions of Palestinian leadership, especially Hamas. Like if this was their goal, why are they so opposed to a two state solution? It seems like they could easily have had th…

Alongside the other comment, Hamas is far from popular in it's leadership position in Palestine. Probably something to do with the last election being in 2006. Saying it is representative of all Palestinians is a pretty tough reach.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are imagining propaganda but are spreading much of it yourself in my opinion. Israel exists because Jews were prosecuted. If there were reparations, it would be quite the sum going to Israel or Jews living in other countries.

> Israel exists because Jews were prosecuted. Israel exists because the West wanted a seat of military power in the Middle East. Just like America exists because various European powers wanted to exploit the Americas, until American leadership wanted to stop cutting them a slice. Just like Peurto Rico is directly under America's authority yet remains entirely unrepresented in it's government. Colonies all, of various…

Israel isn't involved in a genocide and it was their homeland once. If they are colonizer so is everyone else involved here at least. It doesn't carry any meaning.

Your tensions with Israel might indeed be understandable, meaning the prevalence of such animosity isn't really something new. In that regard I indeed believe that Israel needs to exist.

I also disagree that this was a plot by the west. Of course some pretty smart political moves enabled the foundation of Israel. But that was a special interest group. There were strategic considerations by nations involved, but there is much more to it.

If you want to get rid of your bad conscience of your colonial part, pointing your fingers at Israel surely is the wrong thing to do.

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