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Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

haaretz.com

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Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#701

Post by licebmi__at__ »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #560
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But even if that were not the case 20 years is plenty of time to cleanse Gaza, and the West Bank with it, of every last Palestinian. I'd say at the current rate it would take hardly a couple years. Surely you realize that this is completely unhinged? You are apparently an intelligent person. Doesn't it strike you that there should be a moral dimension to this? That there is a right way to act that is independent of…

>> Doesn't it strike you that there should be a moral dimension to this? I'm not endorsing the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians if that's what you mean. At the same time, you can say that Israel has lost peoples' hearts, that it goes against international law, that it's unhinged etc etc but none of those things will stop the people in power in Israel, who btw are textbook fascists who spit "peace" like a dirty word,…

I kinda agree with your position, but I don’t share your optimistic outlook regarding Israel fate if it loses US support. I think the Arab world is mostly at peace with Israel because of US support, and Russia/China are only thinly supporting other nations because US has such a large stronghold via Israel that make really little sense economically. If Israel loses US support, this calculation changes wildly, and I’m kinda skeptic that Israel could pivot that quickly to other patron, the chaos on the power struggle between factions would create enough delay.

My impression yet is that unless something radically changes, I don’t think Israel would lose US, the power vacuum in the region would be filled by somebody else, something US is unlikely to allow. Despite the show, I don’t believe Biden/Netanyahu’s fallout; it’s simply the only way Biden can do at least the tiny amount of damage control that allows him to keep the most of Jewish/leftist voting blocks.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#702

Post by refulgentis »

bawolff wrote: post #692
nsguy wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I feel like comparing just to china is an unconvincing argument. I think a more reasonable argument would be number of resolutions relative to the behavior in question and the types of behavior that are criticized. Israel has basically been condemed more times than all the other countries combined. At the same time while Israel is not perfect there are objectively much worse countries out there. There are countries o…

This is exactly what I'm referring to in the root comment.

#1) The China claims are straight up lies. I'm a Zionist, I was willing to believe it, then I googled it.

#2) "our human rights abuses aren't relevant because there's others" isn't convincing

#3) the implication that other human rights abuses aren't policed is another google-able lie

#4) we got slapped on the wrist by the world for being an offender, thus we are a victim, is obviously fallacious in a way that is alarming to anyone who isn't prioritizing self-soothing, instead of prioritizing Zionism

#5) the Golan Heights stuff is really rank. It's not about "preventing voting" it's about turning territory that isn't Israel's into Israel's, a huge, massive, problem and violation of international law for many, many, many years

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#703

Post by barfingclouds »

muaytimbo wrote: post #592

So Israel does the exact thing all the politicians try to scare us into believing Russia does every election in the US. I guess the difference is AIPAC.

Yeah just to second this, there has been credible proof that Russia has interfered in our elections, let’s not diminish that reality.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#704

Post by barfingclouds »

dmix wrote: post #486
Metacelsus wrote: post #13

This was related to OpenAI announcing that they had shut down several covert influence campaigns using ChatGPT-generated social media posts. https://openai.com/index/disrupting-deceptive-uses-of-AI-by-...

> As of May 2024, these campaigns do not appear to have meaningfully increased their audience engagement or reach as a result of our services. Just like I've predicted many times on HN. Text generation is low on the list of things needed to successfully engage in automated spam. Social media is built on reputation, not who can write generic believable text the quickest. And funny enough the ex-OpenAI people (mostly H…

A lot of social consensus is often made when huge threads on twitter or Instagram have a massive number of supporters behind a topic. So when bots get better at all saying the same thing in seemingly human voices, it trains us to believe that is popular, and likely that that is right

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#705

Post by The_Colonel »

defrost wrote: post #648
The_Colonel wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that top-level politicians are not your average grandma.

And yet their ranks have examples of senior top level politicians being scammed or phished at similar ball park rates to other people. eg: (Various headlines) * Australian Politicians Keep Falling For Telegram Scams * The phishing email that hacked the account of John Podesta * Who is behind the Westminster WhatsApp 'honeytrap' stings?

You can find examples for everything, the question is whether the incidence among politicians is close to the average elderly population (as implied in the original comment).

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#706

Post by burkaman »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #640
burkaman wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could be wrong but I think it's an intentional misrepresentation of Israel's Law of Return ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return ), which allows any Jewish person to move to Israel and then become a citizen. It doesn't mean that every Jewish person anywhere in the world is automatically an Israeli citizen whether they want to be or not, but some people like to say that.

This is from your own link. >On the day of arrival in Israel, or occasionally at a later date, a person who enters Israel under the Law of Return as an oleh would receive a certificate confirming their oleh status. On the very day they step off the boat or plane. This isn't the case of "anyone who comes to the US and waits 10+ years might finally get to become a citizen". Seems pretty fucking automatic.

What's the next sentence?

The Wikipedia summary is oversimplified, it's very easy but you do have to affirmatively express an interest and fill out an application (https://www.gov.il/en/service/declaration_of_intent_to_recei...). They don't literally hand it to you when you get off the plane, and even if they did you still can't point to any Jewish person and declare that they must be a citizen of Israel. Most Jewish people have never even been to Israel.

Maybe you're arguing that since it's so easy, all Jewish people in Congress are effectively dual Israeli citizens even if they never actually apply for citizenship. In that case, you'll also be shocked to learn that every single person in Congress is a dual citizen of Dominica, which can be obtained without ever setting foot in the country by just paying $100,000 (https://www.cbiu.gov.dm/dominica-citizenship/). Everyone in Congress can afford that, so we might as well say they've already done it.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#707

Post by jonathankoren »

revnode wrote: post #512
lupire wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people of PR voted against becoming a State.

And if they hadn't, would that make the US less of a democratic republic? Not relevant. Also, see Guam, US Virgin Islands, etc who didn't vote for anything.

Look, you really like to talk with confidence, but every time you bring up a a point, you pull a whatabout. Have you even looked into what the people you’re so very concerned with want? That’s the most relevant part of all. It’s not your feelings. It’s what the people you say you care about want. It doesn’t appear they want what you want for them, and you’re big mad about that bro.

Keep carrying that white man’s burden.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#708

Post by golergka »

throw310822 wrote: post #139
golergka wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a thought experiment replace Israeli with Russian citizenship for the Israeli dual citizens in Congress and replace AIPAC with a hypothetical Russian ARPAC Is Russia the main American ally in the region that contributes enormously to American intelligence and R&D, while also supporting American military operations?

Have you considered that things might go the other way around: if Russia had such a strong influence on the US through its political action lobby as Israel does, Russia would be considered by politicians the main ally of the US, and the economic and military ties between the two countries would be unbreakable. Because the purpose of these lobbies is exactly to influence how a certain country feels and acts about anot…

So, in your scenario, US would get another valuable ally? You make lobbying look positively fantastic.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#709

Post by [deleted] »

weberer wrote: post #670
davesque wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I flagged it because it's really boring to see people go through the same predictable, tribal motions on a topic that's been covered to death by every media outlet.

Why not just click the "hide" button? Why try to prevent other people from seeing it who would be interested?

[deleted]

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#710

Post by throw310822 »

golergka wrote: post #708
throw310822 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that things might go the other way around: if Russia had such a strong influence on the US through its political action lobby as Israel does, Russia would be considered by politicians the main ally of the US, and the economic and military ties between the two countries would be unbreakable. Because the purpose of these lobbies is exactly to influence how a certain country feels and acts about anot…

So, in your scenario, US would get another valuable ally? You make lobbying look positively fantastic.

No. The US would be convinced it got another valuable ally- which is not the same as actually having one.

In pretty much the same way, those who fall for long distance romance scams didn't find the love of their life, despite believing so. They found someone who is taking advantage of them.

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