Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nit: the Israeli government is in Jerusalem, not Tel Aviv.
A city of Palestine? This strengthens the point.
In what sense do you mean that Jerusalem is a city of Palestine?
Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
651–660 of 807 posts
Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
#652Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you mean "try to scare us into believing Russia does"? Do you have any doubt that Russia has been interfering in US politics for well over a decade?
> Do you have any doubt that Russia has been interfering in US politics for well over a decade? You mean through completely accepted and legal campaign donations to pretty much every major politician? Oh no wait that’s AIPAC and Israel and “just fine”. You mean through bots that post shit on FB right? I don’t care for conspiracies, but I do wonder why American politicians don’t try to stop donations from foreign gove…
Or by using deepfakes.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/31/us/politics/deepfake-us-o...
> Deepfake of U.S. Official Appears After Shift on Ukraine Attacks in Russia
> U.S. officials said they had no information about the origins of the video. But they are particularly concerned about how Russia might employ such techniques to manipulate opinion around the war in Ukraine or even American political discourse.
Most likely this is meant to target trump supporters to encourage them to go vote for him because it highlights increased US support for Ukraine.
Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
#653Earlier quoted context omitted.
Israel administers the West Bank as a bantustan for the majority of their (technically non-citizen) Arab population, but does not officially count it as part of their territory, so they don’t have to grant the people there citizenship or allow them voting rights. But it’s worth repeating: Israel entirely controls this territory. That is clearly undemocratic.
What is worth repeating this is no different than any other occupied territory in the world or in history. When the US occupied Germany it didn't allow Germans voting rights. When it occupied Japan it didn't give Japanese voting rights. When it occupied Afghanistan or Iraq it didn't give those voting rights either. Puerto Ricans are administered by the US but don't have voting rights. There is nothing undemocratic ab…
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Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
#654Earlier quoted context omitted.
A city of Palestine? This strengthens the point.
In what sense do you mean that Jerusalem is a city of Palestine?
Likely that it (or, specifically, East Jerusalem, West Jerusalem was Israeli both under the partition and the 1949 Armistice Agreement) is part of the territory Israel occupied after 1967 that wasn't Israel, despite later being decalred as annexed, and is generally not viewed internationally as Israeli territory.
Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
#655Earlier quoted context omitted.
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A lot of people have both mechanisms to record what's happening, and share it. It's been that way with Syria conflict, too, though. A lot was shared in twitter/youtube during that one. One thing that's seemingly a bit new is how much ordinary Israeli soldiers are sharing their behavior, empowered by their self-righteousness, I guess. Videos from shooting unarmed deaf people up close in their homes, to all kinds of ca…
I believe Telegram channels in them self are an enabler in this. Some sort radicalizing, dehumanizing
Radical elements can find each other and (dis)organize between themself and instigate such actions between military groups outside the chain of command.
Telegram is used to for this in other current wars.
Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
#656Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you mean "try to scare us into believing Russia does"? Do you have any doubt that Russia has been interfering in US politics for well over a decade?
The total amount of direct evidence (evidence, not assertions of secret evidence by the US government, unproven and unsubstantiated allegations of hacking or superman Bernie memes by click farms based somewhere in Russia) that Russia has "interfered" with US politics that has been released by the US government in the last 10 years adds up to less than the evidence in this article on Israel alone. Evidence aside, I pe…
> that Russia has "interfered" with US politics that has been released by the US government in the last 10 years adds up to (...)
So you acknowledge that it's quite clear that Russia indeed is systematically interfering, and your only claim is to call "what about" some other country?
Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
#657Earlier quoted context omitted.
Israel administers the West Bank as a bantustan for the majority of their (technically non-citizen) Arab population, but does not officially count it as part of their territory, so they don’t have to grant the people there citizenship or allow them voting rights. But it’s worth repeating: Israel entirely controls this territory. That is clearly undemocratic.
What is worth repeating this is no different than any other occupied territory in the world or in history. When the US occupied Germany it didn't allow Germans voting rights. When it occupied Japan it didn't give Japanese voting rights. When it occupied Afghanistan or Iraq it didn't give those voting rights either. Puerto Ricans are administered by the US but don't have voting rights. There is nothing undemocratic ab…
What are you talking about? Germany held federal elections less than 4 years after the end of the war. The US didn't occupy germany against their will for 50 years. Japan had elections ONE year after the war. Stop lying.
Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
#658[dead]
Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
#659Earlier quoted context omitted.
In what sense do you mean that Jerusalem is a city of Palestine?
Likely that it (or, specifically, East Jerusalem, West Jerusalem was Israeli both under the partition and the 1949 Armistice Agreement) is part of the territory Israel occupied after 1967 that wasn't Israel, despite later being decalred as annexed, and is generally not viewed internationally as Israeli territory.
Likely, but since as you say West Jerusalem is Israeli, and the government of Israel is in West Jerusalem on a practical basis, calling it a Palestinian city is both wrong, and making a point that I think is worth stating explicitly.
Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
#660Earlier quoted context omitted.
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"strong counterclaim". You and I have different definitions. I'm saying they're commiting mass murder in hospitals and you're saying they don't do it with air strikes. So I guess it's good then.
> I'm saying they're commiting mass murder in hospitals and you're saying they don't do it with air strikes. So I guess it's good then.
I didn't say it was good.
This thread was about whether NYT is biased or not, with the specific mention of them incorrectly stating a hospital was bombed. You then said that it's infuriating that people are correcting this and that this is propaganda, because every hospital has been bombed.
There is an actual, objective truth here - have hospitals, and especially have all hospitals in Gaza, been bombed, or not. You can decide it doesn't matter, because bombing a hospital is equivalent to raiding a hospital, that's a valid inference. But:
1. I think the truth matters. It always matters, and it especially matters when talking about something complex and divisive.
2. I think that the reason most people say things like "all Gazan Hospitals were bombed", even though it's not true, is because they know that that sounds worse than stating what actually happened.
I don't know what is more clear-cut propaganda than saying things that are not true to deliberately make the truth appear worse.
Look, I understand we don't agree. I understand you think I'm just nitpicking or something over things that don't matter, just to pretend "no genocide is taking place" or something.
I disagree. I think the truth matters. If you think I'm wrong on the facts, I want to be proven wrong - I've been wrong before, and after I'm shown the truth, I stopped saying the wrong thing. I think that's the basic level any person should operate at - not deliberately saying things that are untrue.
But if you think I'm right on the facts, but they don't matter - then I think we have a very different idea of what's important and what isn't.