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Vulkan1.3 on the M1 in one month

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Re: Vulkan1.3 on the M1 in one month

#221

Post by shmerl »

wlesieutre wrote: post #188
shmerl wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Star Citizen is another one recently moving to Vulkan, they just rolled it out as a graphics option in 3.23, and it's slated to replace DX11 once it's working well Does it work well in Wine on Linux with Vulkan renderer now? I tried a long time ago and I was waiting for their Vulkan option to revisit it.

Haven't tried it, but this person says no https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1cl0bwn/star_c...

Interesting. Looks like it works but with poor performance. I guess I'll wait for them to finish the rest of the work to enable more parallelism first.

Also, did they start using EAC? That usually works very badly in Wine unless developers flip some switch to allow it on their side?

Re: Vulkan1.3 on the M1 in one month

#222

Post by MindSpunk »

fngjdflmdflg wrote: post #117
dagmx wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many engines support Metal, in addition to the plethora of console specific APIs. Saying DX11/12 works on Xbox is glossing over that that it's not actually the same DX12 that works on desktop. You then say that if they used Vulkan, it would mean they wouldn't have to debug on a Mac. This is overly optimistic. Even in the OpenGL days, you'd have to test on all platforms because there's so many variances. In general, t…

>if they used Vulkan, it would mean they wouldn't have to debug on a Mac.[...] Neither should or would be blindly trusting that things are portable I didn't mean this, just that you can actually run whatever shaders you compile rather than needing a Mac just to see your output. My point was that you would get "a smoother developer experience," which is true. > Vulkan/DX on AMD/NVIDIA also perform differently enough t…

> Vulkan has some pretty strict conformance tests[0]. It's not like you are going to run into differences between conformant Vulkan implementations every day.

Oh man with every fibre of my being do I wish this were true. I’m debugging a different Vulkan driver bug almost every 2 weeks. PC drivers are passable, mobile drivers are a joke. Shader miscompilations everywhere. Performance traps. Arm Mali drivers currently implement vkCmdPipelineBarrier2 by calling vkCmdPipelineBarrier in a loop for every individual barrier instead of issuing a single barrier. I’ve measured Barrier2 as almost 10 times slower than the older version, only on Arm drivers though.

You have to test everywhere

Re: Vulkan1.3 on the M1 in one month

#223

Post by guipsp »

vilunov wrote: post #210
tracker1 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's absolutely fair to count games that are able to run in Linux with Proton via DXVK + Vulcan. Since it's well established and relatively popular thanks to Valve's efforts with the Steam Deck and Proton. Given those efforts, if Apple/Mac had support for Vulkan, Valve would probably make it all just as available on Mac as they do on Linux for Proton.

Even with Vulkan support on macOS it would be harder for Valve to make many games accessible as they do on Linux – unlike Linux, macOS does not support running 32-bit binaries anymore.

You'd be correct a few years ago, but not anymore. WOW64 mode is pretty good nowadays.

Re: Vulkan1.3 on the M1 in one month

#224

Post by guipsp »

troupo wrote: post #140
talldayo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will be a small bit of irony if the gaming experience on Asahi ends up easier and more straightforward than MacOS. Really just drives home how big of a mistake it was ignoring Vulkan for the past decade on Apple's behalf, but lord knows they won't admit that until it's too late.

> Really just drives home how big of a mistake it was ignoring Vulkan for the past decade on Apple's behalf, but lord knows they won't admit that until it's too late. People who keep saying this have surprisingly short/bad memories. And very little idea of the state of the industry. - Apple already shipped Metal version 1 a full year before Vulkan was even an idea. iPhone, one of the largest casual gaming platforms i…

> Apple already shipped Metal version 1 a full year before Vulkan was even an idea.

This is only true if you forget how Vulkan came about.

Re: Vulkan1.3 on the M1 in one month

#225

Post by IntelMiner »

zamalek wrote: post #205
whitehexagon wrote: post #55

Amazing, I'd only just updated for ES 3.2 support. It feels like my M1 was built for Asahi! although to be fair I only booted macos once on it, probably during install, or by mistake! Anyway great work! and nice to have these detailed updates. Are any browsers supporting 'zero copy rendering' or still layers and layers of compositor stuff going on? I seem to recall also getting stuck with webgl2 transform feedback tr…

Is it possible to remove MacOS entirely? This has me considering a mini for travel.

MacOS is still needed for the various firmware updates and other components. But the Asahi installer seems to shrink it down to about 30GB which is acceptable

Re: Vulkan1.3 on the M1 in one month

#226

Post by shmerl »

astrange wrote: post #216
shmerl wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that stop Apple from supporting Vulkan on their system? It is pure political sabotaging. And you can't pull any excuses like "it requires effort". Apple have pools of cash to do the right thing for users and developers. They simply very intentionally oppose it due to their dinosaur lock-in mentality.

A blog post is different from a real compliant commercial implementation. Other reasons you couldn't do it include eg someone with a patent on it won't license it to you.

Mesa's implementation will get a compliance certification once it's ready. I don't see why they would have problems with that - other Vulkan drivers got compliance from Khronos once they passed needed tests. Patent FUDs are nonsense - no one else has such issues and many drivers already exist and work fine.

The real reasons are not good at all (i.e. Apple's obsession with lock-in) and have no excuse.

Re: Vulkan1.3 on the M1 in one month

#227

Post by signa11 »

this:

'''

April 16

The tests for “descriptor indexing” revealed a compiler bug affecting subgroup shuffles in non-uniform control flow. The M1’s shuffle instruction is quirky, but it’s easy to workaround. Fixing that fixes the descriptor indexing tests.

'''

is just bonkers !

Re: Vulkan1.3 on the M1 in one month

#228

Post by kalleboo »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #106
eptcyka wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were the (one of the) first ones to usb-c on laptops. I don’t think they were ever planning to do usb-c on the iPhone, they had no reason to be this late.

They didn't have a technical reason to be that late, but they probably had a marketing reason -- and I don't mean "they made money by licensing Lightning." (They did, obviously, but I don't think it was raking in big bucks, at least not Apple standards.) When the iPhone switched to Lightning from the clunky 34-pin iPod connector, a whole lot of people got pissed off with Apple and stayed pissed off with them for year…

When Apple went up on stage and announced Lightning, they said "this is our connector for the next 10 years".

10 years later, almost on the dot, they replaced Lightning on the iPhone with USB-C.

Doesn't seem weird at all to me.

Re: Vulkan1.3 on the M1 in one month

#229

Post by talldayo »

astrange wrote: post #80
coldpie wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's like, two guys at Apple who care about gaming. Everyone once in a while they manage to convince marketing to say something about it and rope in a couple more devs to half-assedly hammer out some tickets before they can go back to their normal tasking. There's no traction internally to taking PC gaming seriously at Apple.

You don't need indoor hobbies when the weather is this nice.

Boldly typed

Re: Vulkan1.3 on the M1 in one month

#230

Post by [deleted] »

kbolino wrote: post #149
rowanG077 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AAA gaming is THE driving factor for getting Vulkan on Asahi. There really are only a tiny subset of games that require a kernel anti cheat. Let alone the wealth of single player games.

I'd love to hear about all these DRM-free single-player AAA games. If you're talking about older games, then maybe we're just talking past each other; I assumed we were talking about recent AAA games.

[deleted]
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