I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews • Hacker News Board

Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#581

Post by emodendroket » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:41 PM UTC

KaiserPro wrote: post #242

jonkho wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not true. In any discipline when confronted with a test there are two strategies: brute memorization of the question/answers, or developing the skills to tackle the problem dynamically. You cannot categorically claim that LC tests are largely memorization tests rather than raw problem-solving skills. That is just the approach you are capable of taking. Not being able to see up the mountain doesn’t imply there…

> You cannot categorically claim that LC tests are largely memorization tests rather than raw problem-solving skills If that were the case then a normal, well accomplished software engineer shouldn't need to "grind" leetcode to pass an interview. its just a cargo cult. Getting someone to do a code review is a much much better test of skill: Do they ask questions? are they kind in their assertions? At what point do th…

Designing a test for which one cannot possibly prepare is a problem that’s bedeviled test makers for a long time. The team behind the SAT threw up their hands and said it no longer stood for “scholastic aptitude test” but just… nothing.

Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#582

Post by emodendroket » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:43 PM UTC

John23832 wrote: post #317

mathgladiator wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us derive the answer on the spot...

For the hashmap problem, sure. Any SWE worth their salt should be able to figure those out. I highly doubt you are sight-reading atomic bomb LC hards.

I also don’t think that most white boarding interviews actually use that kind of question.

Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#583

Post by emodendroket » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:44 PM UTC

John23832 wrote: post #321

koolba wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem isn't standardized tests, it's that leetcode questions are about having the time to have learnt the answer beforehand, rather than raw ability for problem solving. This sounds like you want to penalize students who studied for the exams. Or at least not reward them. Like all interview formats, it’s a proxy for understanding if the prospect would be able to get the work done and be a good fit with the re…

Why should a job be an exam? For someone who has worked at both FAANGS and startup, I've never found a job that remotely matches a leetcode problem. Most companies are building products anyway.

Because it seems a fairer way of apportioning limited opportunities than just looking at what school you went to, looking at previous companies on your resume, or seeing how well you can shoot the breeze.

Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#584

Post by emodendroket » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:45 PM UTC

Benjammer wrote: post #48

emodendroket wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure anyone determined to do so can act unfairly regardless of what process is in place, but the fact that there is a standardized test in my mind does the opposite and makes the process much fairer. Assuming a fair-minded interviewer, the process gives a chance to a candidate whose resume may have less vaunted names on it to demonstrate their skill. I'm quite sure that I'd never have had some of the opportunitie…

So are we just going with a base assumption that interviewers can NEVER be trusted with anti-bias training and learning how evaluate people fairly? The examples mentioned in this comment section are all blatantly intentional biases that people are choosing to use. The amazing part is that all the “standard test eliminates bias” people seem to the most ignorant to where bias helps THEM. Forcing people to study for two…

> Is the culture just so broken at these companies that it’s hopeless to expect people NOT to blatantly exploit the system for their friends? Why don’t people get fired for doing that?

How do you catch them? Unless they’re idiots they’ll write facially plausible explanations of their hire/no-hire decisions.

Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#585

Post by emodendroket » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:47 PM UTC

angoragoats wrote: post #485

Aunche wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may work out great if you happen to have worked on Rails for your last job. However, I doubt that everyone you interview is actually that familiar with Rails but rather is pursuing any sort of opportunity that they can get. In that case, they would actually more time to brush up multiple different tech stacks than simply on algorithms.

In that case, the interview question is working as intended. For most of our roles, we want several years of Rails experience, and we are clear about that fact in the job listing. If someone applies without Rails experience, they either didn't read the job listing, or are desperate to find any job. While I empathize with folks in the latter situation, our positions really do require the experience, and the job market…

This leaves those who don’t wish to limit their candidate pool by previous stack experience with no option.

Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#586

Post by spacecadet » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 8:31 PM UTC

spacecadet wrote: post #264

spacecadet wrote: post #260

Well give how well the FAANGS all turned out, evil-money generating society destroying hell holes... I imagine it actually goes like this: Im going to randomly and silently draw from one of 3 topics that I understand, but nothing that I don't and would need to collaborate with you to solve. It must be something I have memorized so not to risk looking less smart than the interviewee. Good we have now hired the 10,000t…

LC says, "we have no clue what we are building but need people who can build anything, maybe", its a hiring strategy when you have no company strategy.

1000% and leads to joke returns for all and a IPO that essentially robs the public. "Evil money generating hell holes".

Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#587

Post by milabrandson2 » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 10:58 PM UTC

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Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#588

Post by David244 » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 11:33 PM UTC

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Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#589

Post by aleksander111 » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 11:34 PM UTC

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Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#590

Post by angoragoats » Thu, Jun 06, 2024, 12:13 AM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #585

angoragoats wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case, the interview question is working as intended. For most of our roles, we want several years of Rails experience, and we are clear about that fact in the job listing. If someone applies without Rails experience, they either didn't read the job listing, or are desperate to find any job. While I empathize with folks in the latter situation, our positions really do require the experience, and the job market…

This leaves those who don’t wish to limit their candidate pool by previous stack experience with no option.

No, it doesn’t. I was just giving an example from personal experience.

For any given job, I believe there’s a way to design an assessment that allows the candidate to demonstrate skills directly relevant to the job, even if the job doesn’t have requirements that are as specific as “Rails developer with a few years of experience.” I have yet to see a single job listing in several decades in the industry where I think to myself “ah yes, the only way to find qualified candidates for the job would be to ask them to implement a quadtree.”