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Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

haaretz.com

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Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#451

Post by School-Cotton »

bitcurious wrote: post #320
hehdhdjehehegwv wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is not a democracy, a huge percentage of the populate cannot vote and have no civil rights or any sort. Let’s please stop repeating this falsehood. It’s propaganda and the facts are clear.

Can you speak more to your perspective? The only way I can understand your take is to say that the West Bank is rightfully Israeli and therefore its residents should be citizens with voting rights. Are you opposed to an independent Palestinian state?

Countries with bantustans that they technically don't claim as part of their territory, but in practice completely control without giving the population any rights, are not normally considered democratic. See for example South Africa.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#452

Post by ajross »

pvg wrote: post #429
ajross wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then maybe cite the definition you're using? And explain why it doesn't fit every kind of opinion broadcasting. Like, are flyers for a protest "propaganda"? Is grafitti propaganda? Is writing an opinion essay propaganda? Hosting a blog propaganda? Where does it stop?

Like, are flyers for a protest "propaganda"? Is grafitti propaganda? They easily can be. Same with opinion broadcasting. It's not a matter of some strict definition, just whether you prefer a negative connotation with "propaganda" and how you feel about the thing being propagandized given that the negative connotation is the most common English usage.

That was exactly my point. The use of "propaganda" by nerdjon really just means "an opinion I disagree with".

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#453

Post by issafram »

Calvin02 wrote: post #440
MisterDizzy wrote: post #428

[flagged]

How many problems in the US are due at least in part to the desire to support and promote democracy? We wouldn’t be involved / concerned with NATO unless we valued democracy and freedom for our partners, no?

You are out of your mind if you think that Israel is a democracy

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#454

Post by mike50 »

lenerdenator wrote: post #141
tacheiordache wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US is willing to at least work with Israel What do you mean at least work with Israel? The US is propping up Israel and without that ally Israel would probably implode. What’s messed up is how disrespectful Israel and some of their politicians are to US and their citizens. One thing I like about Israel is that they have a variety of oppinions and schools of thought. What we’re currently seeing is coming from th…

Israel is a postindustrial economy with a 600,000-man military reserve and (unofficially) a nuclear arsenal of the size and capability needed to destroy the society of any industrialized nation on Earth. Almost all of the support and protection they've received from the US since October has been mainly to keep leverage on Netanyahu and to keep the war from spreading across the Middle East. For example, if Iran's miss…

Which Israeli defense contractors build airplanes and tanks? Without aircraft and spares you cannot have a modern military. The US absolutely props up Israeli with weapons and military technology that they do not produce in country. Waving around nuclear weapons and a massive number of troops are the actions of states that are weaker then project as (Russia DPRK).

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#455

Post by mrkeen »

tacheiordache wrote: post #117
lenerdenator wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General lack of countries with something even vaguely resembling representative government in the Middle East. Israel seems to only extend that sort of courtesy to a part of its citizenry, but when you remember that the "stable" countries in the region are all more-or-less absolute monarchies, it becomes obvious why the US is willing to at least work with Israel.

> the US is willing to at least work with Israel What do you mean at least work with Israel? The US is propping up Israel and without that ally Israel would probably implode. What’s messed up is how disrespectful Israel and some of their politicians are to US and their citizens. One thing I like about Israel is that they have a variety of oppinions and schools of thought. What we’re currently seeing is coming from th…

> What we’re currently seeing is coming from the radical right wing and those atrocities will unfortunately stain Israelis of all types. Hope they do at the next elections.

Wishful thinking, regardless of which elections your talking about. In the US, both sides are working hard to prop up Israel. In Israel before October, Netanyahu was on trial for fraud, bribery and breach of trust. Who's even talking about that anymore? Now he gets to be a war Prime Minister.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#457

Post by dylan604 »

tredre3 wrote: post #442
dylan604 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For purposes of conversation and allowing for a moment your idea is true, to what purpose was the curfews imposed? Who benefited? How? Why were the curfews necessary to achieve those goals?

> to what purpose was the curfews imposed? The stated purpose was to flatten the curve. > Who benefited? The government. > How? By giving the impression that they were doing something. > Why were the curfews necessary to achieve those goals? They weren't, as far as we know. In Quebec's case they were still scrambling to justify them a few hours before the press conference: https://www.thesuburban.com/news/legault-s-c…

[flagged]

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#458

Post by ithkuil »

nerdjon wrote: post #294
ajross wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you have a somewhat unconventional personal definition for "propaganda". Almost always people use that word to imply something clandestine, misleading, or both. What you showed is a paid advertisement from a US-registered 501(c)(3) nonprofit, JewBelong, with public accounting on all donations, and a relatively clear mandate for how it spends its money. Again, you're simply saying that a (really only slightly edg…

I do not believe that is the case, you seem to have a more narrow view of propaganda. Just look at the Webster definition: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda What you describe is one form of propaganda but not the only one. Would you agree that Rosy the Riveter was Propaganda? Or this one https://www.archives.gov/files/exhibits/powers-of-persuasion... Both very famous pieces of propaganda the US pu…

The broader meaning of propaganda then just means "spreading ideas to further a cause". If that's true then it would be a neutral word.

But "propaganda" is not a neutral word in practice. It implies something intentionally misleading.

I don't think expressing concern about Hamas is propaganda.

If the billboard said (or implied) "all Palestinians are Hamas terrorists" that would be propaganda

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#459

Post by Matl »

legolas2412 wrote: post #446
Matl wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please, this BS no longer works. "Yitzhak Rabin presented the Oslo II Interim Agreement to the Knesset on October 5, 1995, in his final speech to the legislative body. As he spoke, he boldly laid out what he believed to be the future of the Jewish state, boasting that “The borders of the State of Israel, during the permanent solution, will be beyond the lines which existed before the Six-Day War.” He also describe…

But Israel was not the one that rejected two state solutions offered by UN in 1948, USA in 2000, and by Israel in 1990s, 2008 etc. It was Arab countries, and Palestinian leaders. Why was Palestine not a state before 1967 with Gaza and West bank as territory? How many times have Palestinians offered to recognize and make permanent peace with Israel? Responding to your edit >> If after an independent Palestinian state…

It's questionable that the Western dominated UN of 1948 had any authority to make such a proposal and that it was fair in terms of how the territory was to be divided.

> Why was Palestine not a state before 1967 with Gaza and West bank as territory?

Because it was occupied by Egypt and Jordan and before then by the Brits and before then by the Ottomans....

Are you making an argument that the Palestinians were occupied since forever so why not occupy them forever?

> Huh, why did they not accept it in 2000 then?

The 2000 deal was a deal for 'less than a state' that's why, see my previous post.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#460

Post by issafram »

imzadi wrote: post #104
lprd wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve often pondered the same. Seems like Israel gets a lot of special treatment from the US.

Because anti-Semitism is used to derail any conversation about Israel. If you criticize Israel, you're accused of being an anti-Semite, and actual anti-Semites flood the conversation with actual anti-Semitism that immediately shuts everything down.

Also, people ignore that Palestinians are Semites as well.
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