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Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

idealista.com

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Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#41

Post by diggan »

123yawaworht456 wrote: post #28
diggan wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is as bland and vanilla as HN comments complaining about articles being written by ChatGPT without providing any sort of evidence :)

after dealing with LLMs for a while, you just know. >It is essential for property owners in Spain to be proactive in protecting their assets against potential squatting. This includes ensuring that properties are properly secured, regularly monitored, and that any signs of illegal occupation are promptly addressed with legal action. For squatters, it is important to be aware of the legal risks associated with occupyi…

I'm 99% sure the article was originally written in Spanish and then (either by human or machine), translated to English, as Idealista is a Spanish company.

Jumping to the conclusion that a LLM has written it, when you don't even seem to understand the context, seems really rash. But then this is HN, so you're forgiven.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#42

Post by golergka »

codetrotter wrote: post #29
diggan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we have doors and windows closed, so in reality this isn't a huge issue. But historically, we've had huge issues with low employment, poverty and empty houses being all around you, while you cannot afford rent. Lots of empty houses + no employment + no money for rent = lets take this house and live in since no one lives there and we don't have a house currently. Basically, if you buy property, make sure to cl…

> Basically, if you buy property, make sure to close it and install a security system. If okupas appear, do the "legal fasttrack" and get them out within 48 hours and it won't be an issue. And also, if you’re gonna buy property please do so to actually live there yourself or to house a business that you own and actually operate. Don’t buy houses to rent them out. Don’t buy houses because you think that letting it sit…

You've listed all the ways to make sure no new houses are built.

Update:

> And also, if you’re gonna buy property please do so to actually live there yourself or to house a business that you own and actually operate.

This means that I can't rent. But as a person who lives somewhere, or a person who operates a business, I'd rather rent than own — I don't want to have all the headache of owning the property, and I don't want to be committed to one place so much, I want to be able to move easily when my circumstances change. Even if I had enough money to buy a house, I would put that money into a bank or investment fund that buys thousands of different homes and rents it out so I'm not that exposed to risks of owning any single piece of property.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#43

Post by vvillena »

ssijak wrote: post #33

This is pure madness. So you have 48 hours after squatting started to report it and potentially get a fast eviction (why is it not an automatic criminal case for breaking into the property is beyond me). But after 48 hours it seems like it becomes a nightmare. So if you are on a business trip for 3 days or visiting parents in a different city or vacationing for a few days and somebody enters your home, you are out of…

No. If someone enters your home, as in, you live there, the city has you registered into that address, and/or your ID card states that's your address, it's not squatting. That's trespassing, and the police will happily assist.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#44

Post by mbowcut2 »

diggan wrote: post #15
mbowcut2 wrote: post #12

[flagged]

The article is as bland and vanilla as HN comments complaining about articles being written by ChatGPT without providing any sort of evidence :)

Touché. I put the first paragraph in GPTZero, and it says 100% AI generated. Unfortunately, AI detectors are notoriously bad, giving all kinds of false positives, which goes to my initial point that it is largely a gut feeling. But if you look at other articles posted on the site by the same author they also come up as 100% AI generated on GPTZero, and they also fail the gut test.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#45

Post by mijamo »

dgan wrote: post #18

Oh wow I thought only France has squatting problem. here the squatters can legally occupy your place for 48 hours, and if that's your only place and you went away on vacation tough luck buddy, they can shit on the floor and tear the walls down Good luck getting your money/property back

This is obviously not accurate. The 48h delay is not 48h after squatters entered the place, but 48h after you DISCOVERED them. And after those 48h you will still get your property back, just much more slowly because it is just not considered an emergency anymore if you discover a problem and don't signal it immediately. If you go on vacation for 3 weeks, discover squatters when you come back and can prove you are the owner you will get the squatters kicked out in less than 24 hours, plus potentially arrested. And it makes sense, otherwise everyone would be squatting houses all the time!

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#46

Post by itronitron »

dheera wrote: post #4

One thing I don't get -- if the law doesn't help why don't the owners of these properties release fart spray everywhere and turn the heat up to max until it is unlivable?

The owners can hire contractors that will go to the property in order to help 'determine the conditions' under which the squatters will leave. My understanding is that it's usually a balance of physical intimidation and financial incentive.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#47

Post by hichamdoe »

This is bullshit. I'm dev from Barcelona (Catalonia, Spain) and the squatting topic is periodically being pumped up by the same dumb bastards (always the same companies and media). Squatting exists at the city but it is not an issue in the daily lifes of Barcelona and Spain citizens, only for the fucking big owners with more than 10 flats each. Squatting happens because this bastards (big owners) are inflating the flat prices and getting the people of Barcelona out of their neighborhoods and giving the homes for temporal tourists.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#48

Post by ggpsv »

giantg2 wrote: post #38
crote wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not familiar with the specifics in Spain, but in a lot of jurisdictions that would be illegal. Until they are legally evicted they have the exact same rights as regular tenants, and harassing them would be a crime. The reasoning behind this is that some shady landlords might try to claim that genuine tenants are squatters in order to get rid of them. There are plenty of desperate people who'd accept a verbal con…

The easy fix here is to require property contracts in writing and to be filed with the government and educate everyone on that point. We already do this for property sales to avoid these very issues on ownership. The same thing for leasing would provide better protections for both parties.

That is how it actually works in Spain. You must present the contract when you legally register as a citizen in the city's town hall.

That doesn't stop people from circumventing this requirement, on either side of the contract.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#49

Post by giantg2 »

diggan wrote: post #39
ssijak wrote: post #33

This is pure madness. So you have 48 hours after squatting started to report it and potentially get a fast eviction (why is it not an automatic criminal case for breaking into the property is beyond me). But after 48 hours it seems like it becomes a nightmare. So if you are on a business trip for 3 days or visiting parents in a different city or vacationing for a few days and somebody enters your home, you are out of…

As always, there are always multiple sides to any issue. Another commentator put it better than I could: > The reasoning behind this is that some shady landlords might try to claim that genuine tenants are squatters in order to get rid of them. There are plenty of desperate people who'd accept a verbal contract and payment in cash, after all. Not that hard of a choice when the alternative is being homeless. Oh, but y…

"Making it too easy to get rid of squatters would expose the most vulnerable people in society to even more abuse, and making it trickier for absentee landlords to get rid of real squatters is considered a fair price to prevent this."

Except this is poorly thought out and not really true.

You can provide better protection for both sides by requiring written and recorded contracts for real property use/rental, just as we do for real property sales today.

"It's not a black & white issue where one side is obviously right and the other one is obviously wrong."

That's because the system is broke and allows abuses by both sides.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#50

Post by diggan »

ssijak wrote: post #40
diggan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we have doors and windows closed, so in reality this isn't a huge issue. But historically, we've had huge issues with low employment, poverty and empty houses being all around you, while you cannot afford rent. Lots of empty houses + no employment + no money for rent = lets take this house and live in since no one lives there and we don't have a house currently. Basically, if you buy property, make sure to cl…

what if you travelled out of country for 10 days for whatever normal reason? can you do the "fast track" online or in person only?

Yes, you'd have legal representation (that is located in Spain) that can initiate it and handle it for you.
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