Why would anyone invest in development in a country with such laws?
That's what happens when you turn criminals into victims. Wrong incentives and side effects make a bad situation worse.
Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
31–40 of 930 posts
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#32[deleted]
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#33This is pure madness. So you have 48 hours after squatting started to report it and potentially get a fast eviction (why is it not an automatic criminal case for breaking into the property is beyond me). But after 48 hours it seems like it becomes a nightmare. So if you are on a business trip for 3 days or visiting parents in a different city or vacationing for a few days and somebody enters your home, you are out of luck and the squatters now have more rights than you?!
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#34Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
> why don't the owners of these properties release fart spray everywhere and turn the heat up to max until it is unlivable? If the okupas have been there for longer than 48 hours without you trying to get rid of them, doing something like that could be considered harassment and/or endangering the occupants' health, so you'd probably face criminal charges for it. You're not allowed to alter the living conditions to fo…
Yup, lots of cases where the owners stopped paying/turned-off water, gas, electricity and the court made them turned them back on (and pay all the bills).
madness
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because we have doors and windows closed, so in reality this isn't a huge issue. But historically, we've had huge issues with low employment, poverty and empty houses being all around you, while you cannot afford rent. Lots of empty houses + no employment + no money for rent = lets take this house and live in since no one lives there and we don't have a house currently. Basically, if you buy property, make sure to cl…
> Basically, if you buy property, make sure to close it and install a security system. If okupas appear, do the "legal fasttrack" and get them out within 48 hours and it won't be an issue. Doesn't that make you not want to buy property in the first place? I'd rather buy it someplace where it can't be stolen.
> Doesn't that make you not want to buy property in the first place?
If it was a common problem, then yes. But it's relatively uncommon, and to be honest, I'd rather have the existing system in place where people can legally occupy unused buildings, because there is a lot of them around here. And lots of property owners just keep them empty for years until their "investment" gives them the returns they want, which to me is a bigger problem than okupas.
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#37One thing I don't get -- if the law doesn't help why don't the owners of these properties release fart spray everywhere and turn the heat up to max until it is unlivable?
I am not familiar with the specifics in Spain, but in a lot of jurisdictions that would be illegal. Until they are legally evicted they have the exact same rights as regular tenants, and harassing them would be a crime. The reasoning behind this is that some shady landlords might try to claim that genuine tenants are squatters in order to get rid of them. There are plenty of desperate people who'd accept a verbal con…
> try to claim that genuine tenants are squatters
This, exactly. These kinds of slanted articles that only state the issue from the perspective of negligent absentee landlords, whether written by ChatGPT or otherwise, all have the same problem: that's not how property disputes are resolved. The first thing that a court would have to establish is that the person trying to remove another person from a given place would be whether the first person has any right to the place, and to what extent. And the next thing would be the question of whether the second person has a stake in the place, and the nature and extent of that interest. Then they have to balance interests.
I know Spain is not America and doesn't share America's uniquely bad system of estates, but we see this all the time in America where a self-described landlord wants the county sheriff to immediately taser some old lady, but they can't even sufficiently demonstrate that they own the home.
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#38One thing I don't get -- if the law doesn't help why don't the owners of these properties release fart spray everywhere and turn the heat up to max until it is unlivable?
I am not familiar with the specifics in Spain, but in a lot of jurisdictions that would be illegal. Until they are legally evicted they have the exact same rights as regular tenants, and harassing them would be a crime. The reasoning behind this is that some shady landlords might try to claim that genuine tenants are squatters in order to get rid of them. There are plenty of desperate people who'd accept a verbal con…
The easy fix here is to require property contracts in writing and to be filed with the government and educate everyone on that point. We already do this for property sales to avoid these very issues on ownership. The same thing for leasing would provide better protections for both parties.
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#39This is pure madness. So you have 48 hours after squatting started to report it and potentially get a fast eviction (why is it not an automatic criminal case for breaking into the property is beyond me). But after 48 hours it seems like it becomes a nightmare. So if you are on a business trip for 3 days or visiting parents in a different city or vacationing for a few days and somebody enters your home, you are out of…
As always, there are always multiple sides to any issue. Another commentator put it better than I could:
> The reasoning behind this is that some shady landlords might try to claim that genuine tenants are squatters in order to get rid of them. There are plenty of desperate people who'd accept a verbal contract and payment in cash, after all. Not that hard of a choice when the alternative is being homeless. Oh, but you paid your rent a day late? Sorry, you're now a "squatter", so we're cooking you alive until you leave.
> Making it too easy to get rid of squatters would expose the most vulnerable people in society to even more abuse, and making it trickier for absentee landlords to get rid of real squatters is considered a fair price to prevent this.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40586929
It's not a black & white issue where one side is obviously right and the other one is obviously wrong.
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#40Why would anyone invest in development in a country with such laws?
Because we have doors and windows closed, so in reality this isn't a huge issue. But historically, we've had huge issues with low employment, poverty and empty houses being all around you, while you cannot afford rent. Lots of empty houses + no employment + no money for rent = lets take this house and live in since no one lives there and we don't have a house currently. Basically, if you buy property, make sure to cl…
what if you travelled out of country for 10 days for whatever normal reason? can you do the "fast track" online or in person only?