Don't hate the payer, hate the game
I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews
161–170 of 625 posts
Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the fact that there is a standardized test in my mind does the opposite and makes the process much fairer The problem isn't standardized tests, it's that leetcode questions are about having the time to have learnt the answer beforehand, rather than raw ability for problem solving.
That’s not true. In any discipline when confronted with a test there are two strategies: brute memorization of the question/answers, or developing the skills to tackle the problem dynamically. You cannot categorically claim that LC tests are largely memorization tests rather than raw problem-solving skills. That is just the approach you are capable of taking. Not being able to see up the mountain doesn’t imply there…
That's exactly true.
LC tests typically copy problems from the university the interviewer graduated from. College programs differ, so this is really a case of what you were introduced to.
There's a fairly popular online LC test company in my corner of the world which was formed by graduates and lecturers from a certain university and they started out by just giving the problems from the curriculum. Result was heavy bias in favour of students and alumni of that university.
Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the fact that there is a standardized test in my mind does the opposite and makes the process much fairer The problem isn't standardized tests, it's that leetcode questions are about having the time to have learnt the answer beforehand, rather than raw ability for problem solving.
> The problem isn't standardized tests, it's that leetcode questions are about having the time to have learnt the answer beforehand, rather than raw ability for problem solving. This sounds like you want to penalize students who studied for the exams. Or at least not reward them. Like all interview formats, it’s a proxy for understanding if the prospect would be able to get the work done and be a good fit with the re…
> If your complaint is that a normal person wouldn’t have the time to study these things in detail, why would a company want to hire someone who has external obligations?
External obligations like full time employment and a family?
Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews
#164I've interviewed developer candidates who seemed to know a lot of theory, but when it came to write some code, they failed miserably. They could not implement fizz-buzz. Senior Java developers who could not import HashMap without looking it up. It's kind of like math. If you need to multiply 562 * 1041, you should use a calculator. If you need to reach for a calculator to tell me how much 3 * 7 is, I will doubt that…
> Senior Java developers who could not import HashMap without looking it up. Eclipse does not without me having to even look at it. IntelliJ does the same. In what situation these people had to import it by hand? They had no ide available or what?
Google used to ask people to write code in a Google doc. No tools allowed.
Facebook to this day disables intellisense in their coderpad interviews.
It's fucked up.
Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews
#165I'm happy that Amazon have a horrible leetcode style interview practice. In my interview I had to design an algorithm to detect certain combinations of fruit and veg bought from Amazon fresh, which would trigger fruit-machine style payouts. If I hadn't said "f this" and did something that actually interests me, I would probably have a huge mortgage sitting in rainy ol Blighty designing user hostile experiences like P…
> I would probably have a huge mortgage sitting in rainy ol Blighty Feeling a bit triggered by this - but also curious how you escaped :)
Haha it's a lot easier than people imagine - if you have no dependents, leave your stuff in storage or with your mum and get on a plane with some clothes, a laptop and £15k income or savings per year. Personally I bring climbing gear too. 500 quid a month gets you an epic condo in SE Asia with 500Mbps symmetric (I'm talking city centre with rooftop infinity pool). Visas can be complicated but it's far easier here than Europe. They only managed to destroy our freedom of movement in Europe, not the rest of the world.
Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews
#166Leetcode test would be fine, if they were formalized with automated scoring and nobody giving you hints/silent treatment. Unfortunately, proponents of "normal" interview process will tell you that it's necessary to observe engineer working on a problem to know how good they are.
Maybe they are right. After all, I'm not an expert on the matter of recruitment. But from my experience, I felt far better when the process was not "personal", even if I didn't get accepted in the end.
Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews
#167I'm maybe more cynical, I believe that these types of interviews don't filter out less smart people, but filter out people who don't object to the processes of Big Tech. I think they mainly serve to pass through people who aren't going to question the system, and won't speak up when during their day to day trenches they're implementing ethically bankrupt software. Intelligence has nothing to do with it, it's about ensuring the capitalism machine keeps going without any revolt.
Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The problem isn't standardized tests, it's that leetcode questions are about having the time to have learnt the answer beforehand, rather than raw ability for problem solving. This sounds like you want to penalize students who studied for the exams. Or at least not reward them. Like all interview formats, it’s a proxy for understanding if the prospect would be able to get the work done and be a good fit with the re…
> If your complaint is that a normal person wouldn’t have the time to study these things in detail, why would a company want to hire someone who has external obligations? External obligations like full time employment and a family?
Yes exactly. All things being equal, I’d rather higher someone who’s going to dedicate his entire life to the soul crushing work he will be assigned.
Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the fact that there is a standardized test in my mind does the opposite and makes the process much fairer The problem isn't standardized tests, it's that leetcode questions are about having the time to have learnt the answer beforehand, rather than raw ability for problem solving.
> The problem isn't standardized tests, it's that leetcode questions are about having the time to have learnt the answer beforehand, rather than raw ability for problem solving. This sounds like you want to penalize students who studied for the exams. Or at least not reward them. Like all interview formats, it’s a proxy for understanding if the prospect would be able to get the work done and be a good fit with the re…
it's a good measure of whether they will sacrifice their home life and spend unpaid time doing extra work for you.
Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews
#170I understand the frustration, but at the end of the day I think they do serve a purpose. They're not great at that purpose, but they're good enough and they generally produce false negatives (smart people fail) rather than false positives (you hire an idiot). And this makes sense, because a false negative is low cost (maybe you spend 50% longer interviewing candidates) but a false positive is high cost (you hire an i…
They do produce plenty of false positives - just not "you hire an idiot" kind. You will hire a person completely unsuitable for the actual job, but is good at leet. Issue is not the lack of intelligence. Issue is not being software engineer despite being good at algorithms. Or not being good at whatever your position requires. I do work in a team where majority was hired by puzzles of sorts. All of them are smart. Th…
Most interview processes I've been through (many, 15 year veteran) involve both the leetcode crap and at least one fit/culture/soft skills round.