US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it • Hacker News Board

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#111

Post by slurgfest » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 2:48 PM UTC

rooshdi wrote: post #81

slurgfest wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are changing the subject a little. The burden of proof for a strong and controversial claim is still on the person making the claim. I haven't made any claim about what the Iranian revolution is doing, so I don't know why I would be obligated to show you evidence regarding what they are doing. Nobody else really knows what they are doing, that is the nature of intelligence secrets in Iran and everywhere else. If…

Changing the subject? I provided everything you asked for and it shows America blatantly disregards Article 6 of the NPT while expecting other countries to follow it. Hypocrisy at its finest. Cheers

From your article, 'Article VI of the NPT explicitly obliges signatories "to pursue negotiations in good faith on effective measures relating to cessation of the nuclear arms race at an early date and to nuclear disarmament, and on a treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control."'

And your argument is that the US is in breach of NPT because Bush said stupid things about tactical nukes?

Question: at which date is a signatory in violation? What is the deadline?

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#112

Post by Turing_Machine » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 2:49 PM UTC

cynoclast wrote: post #62

ck2 wrote: post #28

It's a new cold war. Eventually Iran will write viruses in return to attack US power grid. All fun and games until Homeland Security Theater is given new powers to raid your home and shoot your dog if they think your computer is being used as part of a botnet.

No, we are the aggressors here and I remain highly skeptical that Iran is even trying to do develop nuclear weapons. All the news outlets that speak English are biased as hell on this. If you want real news instead of propaganda you have to watch RT or Al Jazeera. Both of which condemn the US and Israel. Not Iran.

Yes, they bought all those centrifuges to make smoothies. {sarc}

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#113

Post by slurgfest » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 2:49 PM UTC

bluedanieru wrote: post #65

hieronymusN wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't nearly as terrifying as the Cold War with the USSR. We're not threatened with nuclear war, nor having the near misses that could trigger it (Cuban missile crisis). No one is building bomb shelters in their backyards, because right now the balance of power is very much in the United States' favor. Could things get there with another nuclear enabled power like China? Maybe, in time. Iran is not an existentia…

The war itself isn't nearly as terrifying, but somehow the US government is finding it even easier to erode civil liberties now than it ever did during the Cold War.

Even easier now? McCarthy.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#114

Post by Symmetry » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 2:53 PM UTC

cynoclast wrote: post #62

ck2 wrote: post #28

It's a new cold war. Eventually Iran will write viruses in return to attack US power grid. All fun and games until Homeland Security Theater is given new powers to raid your home and shoot your dog if they think your computer is being used as part of a botnet.

No, we are the aggressors here and I remain highly skeptical that Iran is even trying to do develop nuclear weapons. All the news outlets that speak English are biased as hell on this. If you want real news instead of propaganda you have to watch RT or Al Jazeera. Both of which condemn the US and Israel. Not Iran.

Having the same uncritical acceptance of what a news outfit prints - but for a different news outfit from the people around - doesn't make you better, just different.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#115

Post by epc » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 2:55 PM UTC

hieronymusN wrote: post #41

ck2 wrote: post #28

It's a new cold war. Eventually Iran will write viruses in return to attack US power grid. All fun and games until Homeland Security Theater is given new powers to raid your home and shoot your dog if they think your computer is being used as part of a botnet.

This isn't nearly as terrifying as the Cold War with the USSR. We're not threatened with nuclear war, nor having the near misses that could trigger it (Cuban missile crisis). No one is building bomb shelters in their backyards, because right now the balance of power is very much in the United States' favor. Could things get there with another nuclear enabled power like China? Maybe, in time. Iran is not an existentia…

…because a virus like Stuxnet could never, ever infect a command a control system for nuclear weapons?

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#116

Post by Qworg » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 2:55 PM UTC

antonioevans wrote: post #47

ck2 wrote: post #28

It's a new cold war. Eventually Iran will write viruses in return to attack US power grid. All fun and games until Homeland Security Theater is given new powers to raid your home and shoot your dog if they think your computer is being used as part of a botnet.

No one has said how they fully downed that supposed Stealth Drone.

Likely a GPS spoofing attack. Not difficult but the designers should have protected against it.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#117

Post by viscanti » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 2:57 PM UTC

acuozzo wrote: post #100

lambersley wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the point is, what if a cold war scenario was to happen between China and USA; China being nuclear-equipped

> I believe the point is, what if a cold war scenario was to happen between China and USA; China being nuclear-equipped It wouldn't matter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutually_assured_destruction

Your faith in rational human behavior is much stronger than mine. All it takes is one person making an irrational decision (driven by anger, false sense of security, accident or other) to essentially doom everyone. Death-row is filled with people who made similar decisions (do something even though the consequences of that were dire), all it takes is one person making a similar decision on a bigger scale.

MAD doesn't prevent anything, it at best postpones things and at worst forces both sides to escalate to the point where they feel they can completely destroy the other even given significant losses (i.e. building significantly more bombs than they need to destroy the planet).

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#118

Post by oh_sigh » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 3:00 PM UTC

rodolphoarruda wrote: post #108

ck2 wrote: post #28

It's a new cold war. Eventually Iran will write viruses in return to attack US power grid. All fun and games until Homeland Security Theater is given new powers to raid your home and shoot your dog if they think your computer is being used as part of a botnet.

I wouldn't say Iran has the means (a.k.a knowledge) to go ahead and deploy the whole thing: virus development, infiltration, infection of devices within the power grid, and coming out unnoticed.

Way to show your ignorance. Maybe your comment would be interesting if you provided a single reason or fact to back up your claims. Since you don't it sounds like "Hurr, America number one, Iran savages".

Iran has one of the most sophisticated intelligence apparatuses in the world(just ask the CIA what they think about them), and incredibly talented people at their fingertips. Individuals within their organizations also have little oversight on their actions, and large amounts of cash to buy what they can't provide themselves.

Ignore them at your own peril.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#119

Post by Symmetry » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 3:03 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #72

46Bit wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you put a kill switch in? The entire point was for it to be on an offline system, and the traffic for it checking for Internet to in turn check for an order like that might have given the game away. It sounds like they had something to check it wasn't outside and someone just screwed up.

I think the obvious thing would be to look for Internet activity on the machine. E.g., recent files for popular sites in a browser cache directory. Or live network traffic for public netblocks.

But it has to start out on machines connected to the public internet before spreading to the secret facility via USB drive. If it didn't spread when connected to the Internet, it wouldn't work. And it already doesn't blow up centrifuges when it's not on the target network.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#120

Post by jbattle » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 3:06 PM UTC

berntb wrote: post #69

bluedanieru wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The war itself isn't nearly as terrifying, but somehow the US government is finding it even easier to erode civil liberties now than it ever did during the Cold War.

>>somehow the US government is finding it even easier to erode civil liberties now than it ever did during the Cold War. Iran is probably the worst country on the planet when it comes to supporting terrorism. Consider that democracies in general seems to go crazy when they have active terrorism problems and throw out human rights and the law book. E.g. Germany, USA, Israel, Great Britain, Italy, Spain, etc. (The only…

I don't think it's as simple as "Iran is probably the worst country on the planet when it comes to supporting terrorism."

Every powerful country uses violence to advance it's political goals. Every powerful country kills the civilians/citizens of other countries, publicly expressing varying amounts of regret.