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US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

arstechnica.com

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Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#81

Post by rooshdi »

slurgfest wrote: post #63
rooshdi wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't down vote you and I'll show you hard evidence when you show me hard evidence Iran is in violation of the NPT. We don't want any sort of hypocrisy going on around here, right? What the hell, here's some evidence just for kicks: http://compliancecampaign.wordpress.com/2012/02/03/iran-and-... http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2619

You are changing the subject a little. The burden of proof for a strong and controversial claim is still on the person making the claim. I haven't made any claim about what the Iranian revolution is doing, so I don't know why I would be obligated to show you evidence regarding what they are doing. Nobody else really knows what they are doing, that is the nature of intelligence secrets in Iran and everywhere else. If…

Changing the subject? I provided everything you asked for and it shows America blatantly disregards Article 6 of the NPT while expecting other countries to follow it. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Cheers

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#82

Post by philiphodgen »

The fact that the NYT published this piece is interesting. Assume all details are true. Why did the dog bark rather than choose to be silent? And the sources. Assume all of this is true? Why feed the info to the NYT?

When coupled with recent revelations that Mr. Obama personally approves every killing of militants (for certain strained definitions of that term), the upcoming election springs to mind as a motivation. There may be alternate and contradictory reasons, all of which may be true. Many players, cross-purposes.

This could have remained hidden. Indeterminate. Who benefits from this revelation?

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#83

Post by skymt »

hieronymusN wrote: post #18
Fizzadar wrote: post #4

This feels similar to the Megaupload case; America desperately throwing its weight around outside it's borders, with a total disregard for the law. And, just like the Megaupload case, they have fucked up big time. Why does the American govt. feel it has the right to choose who can become a nuclear power or not anyway?

To play Devil's Advocate: How did they "fuck up big time"? From what I can tell from press coverage Stuxnet did exactly what it was supposed to do - damage centrifuges at Natanz.

According to the NYT coverage Stuxnet was never intended to spread beyond Natanz. The escape led to the worm's discovery by security researchers, which led to the investigation and revelation of the US's involvement.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#84

Post by lambersley »

why-el wrote: post #50
hieronymusN wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't nearly as terrifying as the Cold War with the USSR. We're not threatened with nuclear war, nor having the near misses that could trigger it (Cuban missile crisis). No one is building bomb shelters in their backyards, because right now the balance of power is very much in the United States' favor. Could things get there with another nuclear enabled power like China? Maybe, in time. Iran is not an existentia…

I might have read you wrong, but in case you meant China doesn't have nuclear power, you are mistaken.

I believe the point is, what if a cold war scenario was to happen between China and USA; China being nuclear-equipped

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#85

Post by talmand »

cynoclast wrote: post #62
ck2 wrote: post #28

It's a new cold war. Eventually Iran will write viruses in return to attack US power grid. All fun and games until Homeland Security Theater is given new powers to raid your home and shoot your dog if they think your computer is being used as part of a botnet.

No, we are the aggressors here and I remain highly skeptical that Iran is even trying to do develop nuclear weapons. All the news outlets that speak English are biased as hell on this. If you want real news instead of propaganda you have to watch RT or Al Jazeera. Both of which condemn the US and Israel. Not Iran.

I've always felt that in one way or another, everyone involved is an aggressor. This is the real problem, most won't take a step back to break the cycle.

Any news outlet that openly condemns any nation is biased and is propaganda for whatever agenda. A news agency should be just reporting the news so the viewer can decide their feelings on the nations that the reports are about. Now if Al Jazeera wants to have that stance, then that's fine as long as everyone understands what it is that they are doing.

I have not seen any solid proof that Iran is developing nuclear weapons but I have to assume that they are. It is what nations do, they will build what they feel is necessary to protect their interests. If the nations around them have nuclear weapons then most likely they feel the need to have them as well.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#86

Post by fghh45sdfhr3 »

davidw wrote: post #67
ck2 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like the TSA it's our government that is far more terrifying than any imaginary threat they are supposedly protecting us against. And don't underestimate the Iranian government, they are not a third-world country like some people imagine out of ignorance - I really feel sorry for the Iranian people getting caught up in this mess.

> imaginary threat Err... while I'm not stepping in to defend the TSA, I think that to call the threat imaginary ignores recent history.

The threat is absolutely imaginary. Obviously we have real threats, but that is NOT what the security theater is about. The security theater is mostly about purely imaginary threats. And is in fact worse at stopping the few real threats we have. Original security theater idea is from Bruce Schneier, Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_theater

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#87

Post by bestes »

davidw wrote: post #67
ck2 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like the TSA it's our government that is far more terrifying than any imaginary threat they are supposedly protecting us against. And don't underestimate the Iranian government, they are not a third-world country like some people imagine out of ignorance - I really feel sorry for the Iranian people getting caught up in this mess.

> imaginary threat Err... while I'm not stepping in to defend the TSA, I think that to call the threat imaginary ignores recent history.

Can you please cite your example(s)?

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#88

Post by bilbo0s »

hieronymusN wrote: post #18
Fizzadar wrote: post #4

This feels similar to the Megaupload case; America desperately throwing its weight around outside it's borders, with a total disregard for the law. And, just like the Megaupload case, they have fucked up big time. Why does the American govt. feel it has the right to choose who can become a nuclear power or not anyway?

To play Devil's Advocate: How did they "fuck up big time"? From what I can tell from press coverage Stuxnet did exactly what it was supposed to do - damage centrifuges at Natanz.

Only did it though?

The evidence is VERY circumstantial to most nuclear engineering professionals I would think. I think you want them taken out, not vandalized.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#89

Post by davidw »

fghh45sdfhr3 wrote: post #86
davidw wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> imaginary threat Err... while I'm not stepping in to defend the TSA, I think that to call the threat imaginary ignores recent history.

The threat is absolutely imaginary. Obviously we have real threats, but that is NOT what the security theater is about. The security theater is mostly about purely imaginary threats. And is in fact worse at stopping the few real threats we have. Original security theater idea is from Bruce Schneier, Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_theater

> The threat is absolutely imaginary. Obviously we have real threats

I'm not following you.

Nor am I saying that I think the TSA is a good thing or an appropriate response to the threats.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#90

Post by bilbo0s »

joshmaker wrote: post #20
Fizzadar wrote: post #4

This feels similar to the Megaupload case; America desperately throwing its weight around outside it's borders, with a total disregard for the law. And, just like the Megaupload case, they have fucked up big time. Why does the American govt. feel it has the right to choose who can become a nuclear power or not anyway?

Because Iran is a signatory of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treat ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treat... ) and their development of Nuclear weapons is thus in violation of international law.

Uhh...

What?

Have you read the NPT? And are you able to point to the sections that Iran is in violation of along with the evidence proving that violation?

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