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'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

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Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#131

Post by lm28469 »

voisin wrote: post #125
Drakim wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if the standards of living goes up even more, we have x50 better medicine, huge houses for everybody, fine silken clothes, wall-sized TVs, and gourmet truffle soup every day of the week. But everybody is still working long hours, and only get to see their kids in the morning and a few hours before bedtime. But no worries, even more improvements are on the horizon. Within 20 years, you'll get all that, but it'…

I don’t disagree with your statements, but anyone at anytime can choose to opt for more time and less gold plating. There are lots of people making these choices - check out the r/FIRE, r/LeanFIRE, r/FatFIRE communities on Reddit. Check out the book “Your Money or Your Life” https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/78428.Your_Money_or_Your...

> I don’t disagree with your statements, but anyone at anytime can choose to opt for more time and less gold plating.

"Anyone" unless you're part of the bottom 80% earners, unless FIRE means being homeless you'll need more money than what most people can attain if they saved 100% of their paycheck for 30 years

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#132

Post by firesteelrain »

soco wrote: post #115
firesteelrain wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meaning more employees and then more overhead.

Oh no, the overhead!

Which means less promotions and less raises because now it’s spread amongst more people. Businesses exist to make money

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#133

Post by Doxin »

harperlee wrote: post #101
Doxin wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno about other people, but cramming a 40hr workweek into 4 days seems bananas to me. On the other hand from experience I can say that doing a 32hr workweek in 4 days is, in fact, the bees knees.

Some people are in areas where overtime is common, and a longer official schedule protects them from unofficial overtime.

So we should make everyone schedule 24/7, that way there is no unofficial overtime at all.

Unofficial overtime is a problem, but clearly the solution is not to make the official schedules longer. The solution is to actually do something about unofficial overtime.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#134

Post by frizlab »

acchow wrote: post #110
frizlab wrote: post #106

I work in a remote friendly company (I can but don’t have to work fully remote). In addition to being remote friendly, they are also schedule friendly. If I have to take two hours for a personal matter during the day, I just say I’m afk on a chan on slack and I take two hours, the company trusts me to just do my job, time management is up to me. Honestly with this setup I don’t need a four days week.

This is just how it is for software engineers in general, right?

That I don’t know… All I can tell is my company is particularly permissive when I compare to other companies, from what people tell me.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#135

Post by Jensson »

lm28469 wrote: post #127
kortilla wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standards of living are far better now than they were 80 years ago.

When people didn't have ipad pros but could afford rent/mortgage and 3 kids on a single paycheck ? We're flooded in useless shit but can't afford the basics. So yes, underfloor heating, smart light bulbs and google maps are great but is it really all there is to life

80 years ago was ww2, not the 60's.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#136

Post by Jensson »

lm28469 wrote: post #131
voisin wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t disagree with your statements, but anyone at anytime can choose to opt for more time and less gold plating. There are lots of people making these choices - check out the r/FIRE, r/LeanFIRE, r/FatFIRE communities on Reddit. Check out the book “Your Money or Your Life” https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/78428.Your_Money_or_Your...

> I don’t disagree with your statements, but anyone at anytime can choose to opt for more time and less gold plating. "Anyone" unless you're part of the bottom 80% earners, unless FIRE means being homeless you'll need more money than what most people can attain if they saved 100% of their paycheck for 30 years

You can live on half the space as average people and eat half as expensive food, that lets you FIRE on an average wage. Doing that puts you much closer to typical living standards 60 years ago where people ate home cooked food and lived in much smaller homes.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#137

Post by Jensson »

diffeomorphism wrote: post #126
Jensson wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would retention change if everyone works 4 days a week? At that point it is no longer a perk, you get it everywhere, so retention should be as before and the advantages of 4 day weeks is now gone.

Because people that are happy at their job tend to stay. Your point is "so what if they are miserable right now? They will be miserable elsewhere, too". That might be, but people will still try to get away from you, hoping it is better elsewhere.

With that argument retention would already be great with 5 day workweek since it is so much better than 6, but you don't see that, retention is really horrible today.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#138

Post by lm28469 »

Jensson wrote: post #135
lm28469 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people didn't have ipad pros but could afford rent/mortgage and 3 kids on a single paycheck ? We're flooded in useless shit but can't afford the basics. So yes, underfloor heating, smart light bulbs and google maps are great but is it really all there is to life

80 years ago was ww2, not the 60's.

I couldn't afford my great grandparents house on either side of the family, I'm in tech and don't have kids (they had 5 and 2). I can't even qualify for a mortgage for an equivalent house today in the same city

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#139

Post by ratmeadow »

Xenoamorphous wrote: post #85

I find it odd that everyone here is talking about productivity. Although I guess it's to be expected since posts about increasing productivity are popular in HN; lots of people here focusing on their careers I suppose. Personally I find we work way too many hours. We spend the good part of 5 days a week (if we're lucky) at work, often literally all the daylight hours, at least in winter. I have to take my daughter ve…

Agreed, I find it astounding how so many people seem to be ok with devoting almost all their useful hours of life to work (although maybe they aren't ok but cope / convince themselves somehow).

My weekday: get up and immediately go to work, come home, have about 2 -3 hours spare time, sleep, repeat. In that 2-3 hours I'm supposed to source healthy food, exercise, contact family, maintain friendships, maintain a romantic relationship, do laundry, keep the house clean, volunteer / contribute to society, meditate, read, do endless life admin, plan for the future, and finally relax. Then on the weekend, at least 1 day catching up on all the garbage that inevitably couldn't be done during the week. And maybe I'm left with 1 day out of 7 to do things I actually want to do (if I have the energy left).

And let's not even discuss the range of crap tasks that must be done during the 0 business hours I have free: posting mail, going to the doctor, getting an electrician or plumber, contacting the real estate agent, contacting any business really. Lucky I can work remotely or else do any of these I need to take half a day off work.

It's no wonder people have trouble with anxiety and sleep in modern times. There's literally not enough fucking time in the day to do everything which needs to be done. Even if you try to minimise and optimise every part of your life, you still barely have enough time to enjoy yourself.

And we are living this life for what exactly? So in 50 years I still won't own a home and the environment will be irreparably destroyed?

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#140

Post by lm28469 »

Jensson wrote: post #136
lm28469 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t disagree with your statements, but anyone at anytime can choose to opt for more time and less gold plating. "Anyone" unless you're part of the bottom 80% earners, unless FIRE means being homeless you'll need more money than what most people can attain if they saved 100% of their paycheck for 30 years

You can live on half the space as average people and eat half as expensive food, that lets you FIRE on an average wage. Doing that puts you much closer to typical living standards 60 years ago where people ate home cooked food and lived in much smaller homes.

> You can live on half the space as average people and eat half as expensive food, that lets you FIRE on an average wage

Not even close, unless your version FIRE is retiring at 63 instead of 67 and still get 80% of your pension

Average salary in germany: 42k gross, 23k net

Renting a small place : 500 euros (let's say it includes heating, electricity/gas)

Let's say you only eat potatoe and drink rain water: 3 * 1kg * 2 euros/kilos = 180 euros

Good job, after 15 years you have 210k euros you can retire at ~35 years old. This money will allow you to buy a flat in a ghost town and to continue your potatoe fuelled life until you die of old age at ~90

Now remember you have to pay water/electricity/gas, health insurance, property tax, &c.

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