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New York governor to launch bill banning smartphones in schools

theguardian.com

61–70 of 87 posts

Re: New York governor to launch bill banning smartphones in schools

#61
post #51

I still don't understand why they were ever allowed in the first place. I went to public school in the 00s and if you got caught with your phone out in class, it would be confiscated until the end of the day. Repeat offenders would need their parents to come up to the school to get the phone back.

Because phones have become the command center for our lives. Your FreeStyle Libre pings your phone when you have low blood sugar. When your watch detects a serious fall or a heart abnormality your phone calls emergency services. You use your phone to let the dog walker in, check the camera to see if you turned off the garden hose or left it running, use it to find your lost wallet/keys/bag, etc. Childhood is where yo…

> Childhood is where you teach positive behaviors and responsibility. Just chucking phones out the window to avoid the problem teaches nothing.

We specifically engineer acculturation processes to incrementally add responsibility for a reason.

Nobody gives a 2 year old a loaded pistol and then tells them they can't have candy.

IMHO, a smartphone with unregulated addictive apps is too much responsibility for grade-level children during school hours. (Hell, it's too much responsibility for many adults I know)

Re: New York governor to launch bill banning smartphones in schools

#62
post #54

They ripped out home economics, Wood, metal and auto shop. They ripped out the computer labs (hey, many of you HAD vocational training and didn't know it). Gym, Art, Music... all persist. Schools in the US have become some sort of retrograde distopian bubble of a time that never existed. Now you're going to remove the one check that kids had vs this system? Cause we haven't seen videos of teachers being awful, stupid…

> we dont want to give kids the option to fact check bull shit on the spot Reasoning from exceptionalism isn't reasonable. The majority of kids aren't using their phones to complete extra Khan Academy lessons in their free time...

Not to mention, the internet is full of its own bullshit.

Re: New York governor to launch bill banning smartphones in schools

#63
post #45
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technophobia. Kids use phones to communicate with teachers and that includes during the school day.

It's a valuable lesson to learn that the person in authority gets to set rules, even if they're arbitrary. It doesn't seem unreasonable for a teacher to say "I don't like interacting via email. If you need something from me, tell me."

It also seems reasonable for teachers to say, "my email hours are not from the hours of 8am-4pm, so email me after school - since that's when I'll be answering them anyway."

Re: New York governor to launch bill banning smartphones in schools

#64
post #60
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a valuable lesson to learn that the person in authority gets to set rules, even if they're arbitrary. It doesn't seem unreasonable for a teacher to say "I don't like interacting via email. If you need something from me, tell me."

I honestly think it is unreasonable. I don't think the real-world lesson should be to blindly submit to authority. Obviously you have to be realistic, but kids are already very aware of which teachers are being difficult for no good reason. Most teachers now are requiring assignments be turned in via digital channel because it makes it impossible to question when they were due, when they were turned in or for a paper…

That doesn't jive with your experience as an adult in the real world?

Someone in authority says a thing must be a way.

You're welcome to plead your case, or take them to court, or try any other redress that you want. But in the end, if you need something from them you're beholden to their requirements and favor.

It's not like they're asking a child to submit a paper at the top of Mt Everest.

If it needs to be in dead tree form, on a desk, then you plan a way to make that happen. Or you argue your case about why you shouldn't be subject to those rules.

Re: New York governor to launch bill banning smartphones in schools

#65
post #51

I still don't understand why they were ever allowed in the first place. I went to public school in the 00s and if you got caught with your phone out in class, it would be confiscated until the end of the day. Repeat offenders would need their parents to come up to the school to get the phone back.

Because phones have become the command center for our lives. Your FreeStyle Libre pings your phone when you have low blood sugar. When your watch detects a serious fall or a heart abnormality your phone calls emergency services. You use your phone to let the dog walker in, check the camera to see if you turned off the garden hose or left it running, use it to find your lost wallet/keys/bag, etc. Childhood is where yo…

> Your FreeStyle Libre pings your phone when you have low blood sugar.

Surely this could just be an exemption? If you have a medical device (not just low blood sugar devices) that uses a phone then you can keep your phone.

> When your watch detects a serious fall or a heart abnormality your phone calls emergency services.

I'm curious how far your phone can be away from your watch for this to still work?

Regardless, most kids aren't far away from others so a serious fall probably isn't a big risk since the kids nearby can get a teacher or some other adult.

> You use your phone to let the dog walker in, check the camera to see if you turned off the garden hose or left it running

Are these things that kids need to do?

> use it to find your lost wallet/keys/bag, etc

Seems like a kid could go to the office and the school can provide the phone to them for a while.

Also, kids were able to get by without using a phone to find their wallets for centuries. It might do a kid some good to walk around the school and get exercise.

Re: New York governor to launch bill banning smartphones in schools

#66
post #61
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because phones have become the command center for our lives. Your FreeStyle Libre pings your phone when you have low blood sugar. When your watch detects a serious fall or a heart abnormality your phone calls emergency services. You use your phone to let the dog walker in, check the camera to see if you turned off the garden hose or left it running, use it to find your lost wallet/keys/bag, etc. Childhood is where yo…

> Childhood is where you teach positive behaviors and responsibility. Just chucking phones out the window to avoid the problem teaches nothing. We specifically engineer acculturation processes to incrementally add responsibility for a reason. Nobody gives a 2 year old a loaded pistol and then tells them they can't have candy. IMHO, a smartphone with unregulated addictive apps is too much responsibility for grade-leve…

Agreed. We’ve pitted developing minds against machine learning - hardly surprising that students are distracted.

(Written on a smart phone while at work)

Re: New York governor to launch bill banning smartphones in schools

#67

I still don't understand why they were ever allowed in the first place. I went to public school in the 00s and if you got caught with your phone out in class, it would be confiscated until the end of the day. Repeat offenders would need their parents to come up to the school to get the phone back.

Because Columbine.

Re: New York governor to launch bill banning smartphones in schools

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my kid's phone is used for managing and monitoring t1d, and they will always have their smart phone at hand i don't care what law people think they are putting in place

Valid, yes. But the law could still require that the medical monitoring device have other functions disabled or (depending on what the legislators consider easy enough) not in use while in class except for the t1d monitor + SMS + voice, right? And they could still apply discipline if the student's phone has other functions enabled or (depending on the legislative wording) in use while in class? The law could also use…

> The law could also use indirect leverage to gradually separate students' medical monitoring from the smartphone. For example, they could begin a multi-year transition period after which NY-regulated health insurance plans could only cover these types of smartphone-linked medical monitoring devices if they also cover a version with equivalent functionality in a non-smartphone version (at no greater out-of-pocket cost to the patient) unless no comparable non-smartphone product is on the market from any manufacturer. Then they could eventually require the non-smartphone version in class once it exists, with a fully insurance-paid (no cost-sharing) transition available to existing users of the smartphone monitoring system.

I think there are a few issues here.

T1D is already incredibly intrusive in the daily lives of children. Continuous glucose monitors (device 1, on body with bluetooth connection to a smartphone, device 2) track one's blood sugar every 5 minutes or so and gives the child, the parent, and the school nurse the information they need to jointly replace the functionality of the child's pancreas. This might be dosing with insulin through a pump (device 3, sometimes managed via smartphone) to lower blood glucose or cover carbohydrate consumption. Or it might be eating to raise blood glucose.

If the student's blood glucose gets either too high or too low (which can happen in a matter of minutes) the consequences can be fatal or lead to lifelong complications like nerve damage in the extremities or eyes. High stakes stuff.

If I understand correctly, your proposal would introduce a fourth device to separately monitor blood glucose and, I assume, manage the process of uploading this data and sharing it with all parties. This fourth device would mean a few things:

- Yet another piece of expensive, and durable medical equipment you are required to pay for, that insurance rarely fully covers.

- The child would have to tote around now four devices daily to manage a chronic condition.

- Another device to manage and maintain (batteries need to be charged, etc).

- Paying for another 5g plan to ensure that the monitoring device can share information with parents etc.

Despite some of the cons to these systems being integrated into your smartphone, there are considerable advantages to using the networked compute you always have in your pocket. Not to mention that these devices suffer from painfully slow development and approval cycles. Durable medical goods often have to go through federal approval and even small changes to firmware can take years.

Also, just some quick figures. The school age population in NY state as of 2021 was 2,622,879. About 1/400 children ages 0-18 have type 1. So around 6.5k students. This is neither the extreme edge case that others have described (and just one of many chronic diseases that are managed via smartphones) nor is it likely a large enough segment to change product development at these large health tech companies.

I don't think the solution is to try to engineer incentives and overhaul the entire health insurance coverage of durable medical goods. Nor do I think the solution is to require children with T1D to carry around and pay for yet another expensive device.

I think we just need to be careful in the design of legislation like this, as you suggest, especially when it comes to ubiquitous devices that have been integrated into so many facets of people's lives. There is no such thing as a 'trivial exception' to a state law (responding to a commenter further down).

Re: New York governor to launch bill banning smartphones in schools

#69
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m confused about where this assumption that there is or will be a bill that mandates the purchase of a Google Watch is coming from. This whole essay you wrote is taking that conclusion jump and rolling straight into the worst case scenario.

The bill wont strictly "mandate buying a Google Kids Watch" but it will stipulate a ban on smart phones (iPhones being the dominant device) in schools. The Google Kiddie Crack watch is $200, the Apple Watch can't compete at that price point. Dumb Phones (flip phone) wont offer location tracking the parents can monitor. What option is a parent to choose I wonder? This product seems suspiciously designed for a very spe…

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Re: New York governor to launch bill banning smartphones in schools

#70
post #42

I still don't understand why they were ever allowed in the first place. I went to public school in the 00s and if you got caught with your phone out in class, it would be confiscated until the end of the day. Repeat offenders would need their parents to come up to the school to get the phone back.

If your argument if "that's how it was in my day" then it's not very convincing.

I guess I just don't share the sentiment that giving every child in a classroom unfettered access to content designed to distract them while a teacher is trying to teach the class is a good thing. I'm having difficulty understanding why you'd need to be convinced that it isn't.
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